Check your assumptions.... it's called Liberal values.... you know Liberty... or Choice.... or my body my choice. I am vaccinated - so some "antivaxxer" I am... I just don't believe is ramming down my beliefs on someone else by requiring them to jump through my hoops or by being injected with something that could be harmful to them, I'm not their doctor.
I know everyone loved the other part of this instant classic post, but I just needed to highlight how hilarious it was that Jack took the time to outline how he wasn't into ramming his beliefs on someone else... while ramming us all with his ignorant beliefs.
Bravo!
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What I've found is that most people, if not all, who engage in conspiratorial nonsense regarding vaccines specifically or talk about nazi Germany in regards to government intervention, also pretty consistently hold views that align with at least one (and usually more) of the following categories:
- Anti-mask
- General anti-science
- COVID-19 as a conspiracy/fake issue
- Anti-government (in general)
- Racist
- Homophobic/Transphobic
These are also people who say things like "people just want to be victims" or liberally use the word "sheep." They're all the same kind of person. This is, of course, not true of the many mild mannered people who might be vaccine hesitant or lazy but still recognize COVID as an issue in general. But as I said before, the people on display in this thread... it's not science to them, it's politics, and you can pretty confidently track their politics to one type.
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If you win by just repeating and name calling - good on you.
But do me a favor.... bookmark this in you life's memories and revisit it sometime in the future... I think if this goes down the way I'm afraid it will, then you may have a gotcha moment in the future.
Most of things I said was science based.... but then when you filter what you read to one source... then it's you that's misinformed, no amount of name calling or pointing fingers will change that fact. The problem they are seeing now is that vaccinated people think they are immune (and righteously so) and when they feel sick, they think they are immune and it's something else, and it may be COVID, so they are not getting tested and not isolating, so they are spreading it around.
I'm done in this thread because it's not worth it. The misinformation about this virus is just crazy... they scared us all, for what reason, I have no idea. They took all the therapeutic treatments away and relied on the vaccinations - which makes no sense and never done before in history (you don't treat chicken pox with the chicken pox vaccination for example) - and there are so many treatments where 85% of the deaths could have been prevented (I hope in the future this is well known) by using them. Sad... very sad.
A vaccination has never been introduced in the middle of a pandemic before as well... usually they treat the disease and then a vaccination comes out to prevent the next
pandemic years later. But this time, we produced a vaccination in record time, and research is starting to think the by having vaccines around that only attack one protein, it's putting pressure on the virus to mutate the spike proteins to survive.
Anyhow... good luck people. Lol.... I love how I'm an vaccinated anti-vaxxer because I believe in real science and not political correct science - I believe in reality, if the vaccine helps me, I'm happy, but I refuse to believe it's a perfect solution because we can see.... this is no small pox vaccine, it doesn't work as well as we first thought, and I'm not going to drink that Kool-Aid and think I have somehow a magical shield around me. COVID viruses historically have been difficult to vaccinate against... hopefully science has an answer - but the Trump vaccine's aren't looking very good.
Ask questions people... don't blindly follow or believe.
These are also people who say things like "people just want to be victims" or liberally use the word "sheep." They're all the same kind of person. This is, of course, not true of the many mild mannered people who might be vaccine hesitant or lazy but still recognize COVID as an issue in general. But as I said before, the people on display in this thread... it's not science to them, it's politics, and you can pretty confidently track their politics to one type.
Just quoting my own post because the comedy of this coming in seconds later was too perfect. It's like it writes itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackIsBack
Anyhow... good luck people. Lol.... I love how I'm an vaccinated anti-vaxxer because I believe in real science and not political correct science - I believe in reality, if the vaccine helps me, I'm happy, but I refuse to believe it's a perfect solution because we can see.... this is no small pox vaccine, it doesn't work as well as we first thought, and I'm not going to drink that Kool-Aid and think I have somehow a magical shield around me. COVID viruses historically have been difficult to vaccinate against... hopefully science has an answer - but the Trump vaccine's aren't looking very good.
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If you win by just repeating and name calling - good on you.
But do me a favor.... bookmark this in you life's memories and revisit it sometime in the future... I think if this goes down the way I'm afraid it will, then you may have a gotcha moment in the future.
Most of things I said was science based.... but then when you filter what you read to one source... then it's you that's misinformed, no amount of name calling or pointing fingers will change that fact. The problem they are seeing now is that vaccinated people think they are immune (and righteously so) and when they feel sick, they think they are immune and it's something else, and it may be COVID, so they are not getting tested and not isolating, so they are spreading it around.
I'm done in this thread because it's not worth it. The misinformation about this virus is just crazy... they scared us all, for what reason, I have no idea. They took all the therapeutic treatments away and relied on the vaccinations - which makes no sense and never done before in history (you don't treat chicken pox with the chicken pox vaccination for example) - and there are so many treatments where 85% of the deaths could have been prevented (I hope in the future this is well known) by using them. Sad... very sad.....
.
You literally do prevent chickenpox with a vaccine.
Varicella vaccine, also known as chickenpox vaccine, is a vaccine that protects against chickenpox. One dose of vaccine prevents 95% of moderate disease and 100% of severe disease. Two doses of vaccine are more effective than one
The reason there’s no smallpox is that everyone was vaccinated so even though there was a small percentage of breakthrough, the disease was effectively eradicated.
What I've found is that most people, if not all, who engage in conspiratorial nonsense regarding vaccines specifically or talk about nazi Germany in regards to government intervention, also pretty consistently hold views that align with at least one (and usually more) of the following categories:
- Anti-mask
- General anti-science
- COVID-19 as a conspiracy/fake issue
- Anti-government (in general)
- Racist
- Homophobic/Transphobic
These are also people who say things like "people just want to be victims" or liberally use the word "sheep." They're all the same kind of person. This is, of course, not true of the many mild mannered people who might be vaccine hesitant or lazy but still recognize COVID as an issue in general. But as I said before, the people on display in this thread... it's not science to them, it's politics, and you can pretty confidently track their politics to one type.
Politics is culture / culture is politics.
Political parties have found out the secret to getting people to vote was to make the other sides' stance an attack on their culture - in all manners of life.
It honestly works to get people to vote, but the politicians were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didnt stop to think if they should!
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Sydney is going through an outbreak right now and 100% of the folks ICU are unvaccinated or singly vaccinated (5%). Australia has been supply blocked so the full vaccination rate is 20%. We've set a target of 70-80% of adults for herd immunity, which translates to 65% of total pop. Then we open...1000-2000people die in that modelling.
In the biggest I told you so of the new century...it's sad...but it is clear and totally avoidable, but we will be letting the unvaccinated die in 12months or less. Unvaccinated by choice will be overly represented in the death toll at that point 99.9%+. My heart aches for them, and more for the folks that can't be vaccinated. What a sad and horrific way to go out, drowning in an ICU while your lungs fill with fluid instead of getting two shots.
It sounds like the turd mentality gaining ground on the heard immunity.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
I think the vaccines are a good thing, I'm vaccinated, they help.
I also believe we should be allowed to question the science that seems to constantly evolving without the piling on that is all to common on here.
Asking questions doesn't make you an anti vaxer or conspiracy theorist, but seems to be treated as such.
Everything isn't black or white, lots of grey.
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I have Strong opinions about things I know very little about.
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The funny thing about the "I don't want everyone to have access to my medical history" argument is that's the exact reason why you should support the vaccine passport idea.
Just like your travel passport gives people in foreign nations all the information they need about you for travel purposes, without giving them your full life history, a vaccine passport will give people exactly the one piece of information they care about.
On the paper record of my vaccination, it has my full name, birth date, AHS number, and all of the information about the vaccine, including the Lot # and exactly when and where I received it. If I need to show that as proof of vaccination, I'm exposing all that information to the other person.
With the vaccine passport, I would be able to show the other person a barcode on my phone and they'd be able to scan it to confirm that I meet the vaccination criteria set out by the issuer of the passport and I could go on my way with the other person not knowing anything about me other than they got a green light to allow me to enter.
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Turn up the good, turn down the suck!
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The reason there’s no smallpox is that everyone was vaccinated so even though there was a small percentage of breakthrough, the disease was effectively eradicated.
I completely agree with you. The smallpox vaccine worked because it came before the rise of the anti-vax movement. If we had 100% vaccine compliance and timely roll-out of vaccine for everyone, COVID-19 could have been stopped in its tracks, at least in adults, and we would have had far less trouble with variant strains, if we even had any. It's too bad the minority who don't trust peer-reviewed research and prefer to get their medical advice from social media are driving the emergence of variant strains and increasing the risk for everyone else. They continue to argue about their right to choose but conveniently ignore the effects of their choices on everyone else, including increased health risks and the need to repeatedly shut down the economy.
It's funny, anti-vaxxers complain that society is trying to impose something a choice on them that they don't want, but they fail to take into account the consequences of their choices for everyone else. When you make a decision regarding prevention of an infectious disease, you are not only making a choice for yourself, you are making a choice for everyone in your community.
I'm not saying that anyone should be forced to have a vaccine. I am saying that nobody should be forced to be unnecessarily exposed to an unvaccinated person and unknowingly exposing themselves to a risk of being infected. So by making a choice to not be vaccinated, a person may also be making a choice to exclude themselves from non-essential activities, like attending a hockey game.
I completely agree with you. the smallpox vaccine worked because it came before the rise of the anti-vax movement. If we had 100% vaccine compliance and timely roll-out of vaccine for everyone, COVID-19 could have been stopped in its tracks, at least in adults, and we would have had far less trouble with variant strains, if we even had any. It's too bad the minority who don't trust peer-reviewed research and prefer to get their medical advice from social media are driving the emergence of variant strains and increasing the risk for everyone else. They continue to argue about their right to choose but conveniently ignore the effects of their choices on everyone else, including increased health risks and the need to repeatedly shut down the economy.
It's funny, anti-vaxxers complain that society is trying to impose something a choice on them that they don't want, but they fail to take into account the consequences of their choices for everyone else. When you make a decision regarding prevention of an infectious disease, you are not only making a choice for yourself, you are making a choice for everyone in your community.
I'm not saying that anyone should be forced to have a vaccine. I am saying that nobody should be forced to be unnecessarily exposed to an unvaccinated person and unknowingly exposing themselves to a risk of being infected. So by making a choice to not be vaccinated, a person may also be making a choice to exclude themselves from non-essential activities, like attending a hockey game.
I think the vaccines are a good thing, I'm vaccinated, they help.
I also believe we should be allowed to question the science that seems to constantly evolving without the piling on that is all to common on here.
Asking questions doesn't make you an anti vaxer or conspiracy theorist, but seems to be treated as such.
Everything isn't black or white, lots of grey.
The problem with the people who just want to "ask questions" is that they never actually want real answers. They're just looking for any kind of validation that reinforces their existing beliefs
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Through this entire pandemic, the most shocking thing I found out is that I have some antivax friends. Most of them didn't come as a surprise (they bored me with their conspiracy theories years ago), but there was a couple that did surprise me. Really opened my eyes to how prevalent misinformation is now, and how so many people get caught-up in these rabbit-holes where they start believing totally outlandish crap.
I love how they use terms like "you sheeple" or "living in fear", or "get your information from many sources", as a way to convince you (or, more correctly, themselves) that you need to start looking elsewhere for your information.
Listen, I have long posted my disdain for most of the established media outlets - including CNN - as you they give you their slant and opinion on what the news is. Journalism has seen a huge degradation (IMO - sorry for any journalists reading this, but if you are, FFS do a better job and fight for your own integrity) over the last couple of decades. News has become entertainment. News has been bought and paid for by different political interests. What has really changed over the last few years is the degree to which that slant has been shaped, and how misinformation (and racism!) has started getting into "free speech!", and freedom and liberty in general. We are starting to see a shift from 'news' to 'compete fabrication', yet people can't spot it.
I am losing sight of my post here for all intents and purposes. I just shake my head at how people can truly believe crap these days. If this amount of crappy people existed many decades ago, we would still have to worry about Polio and other diseases. Heck, why stop there? All doctors and scientists just want to cause murder and mayhem and shorten everyone's lives, right?
I kid you not, but want this is what an actual 'vaccine rumour' monger spouted one day:
"I am not going to take the vaccine. They are trying to sterilize you man. Know what's in it? Human sperm. They are injecting you with human sperm in an effort to sterilize people."
Yeah, people are all kinds of stupid in this world, but he goes around calling other people sheeple? LoL Right.
I waver from feeling sorry for people who are just caught-up in all this misinformation. I really do usually. Then you start hearing how so many people around the world - good, honest and smart people - who become hesitant on vaccines themselves because they notice so many others are. They hear the antivax noise, and they start to think: "Maybe there is some truth to this?", and they get hesitant. That's when I just shake my head and think: "We are an incredibly ingenious species, but we are downright stupid too. We can invent these vaccines that will save us from so much disease, suffering and loss of life, but we are too stupid to use it." Looks like our stupid human species is about to undergo some type of a culling removing some of the stupid genes that are multiplying.. but unfortunately, this is going to take out a lot of really good people who can't take the shot, or who have heard too much noise and are hesitating.
There is not a single person on this site that is an expert at everything - that's impossible. Trust the LEGITIMATE experts who peer-review their science. Trust the testing that goes on. Trust the ACTUAL science. I will continue to trust that more than some idiot ranting about stuff they have no clue about themselves. I don't go to a mechanic to figure out if my heart is working well or not, and I don't go to my doctor to figure out what that noise in my car is. How people can believe other idiots so easily astounds me.
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Re Winnipeg and Covid: I think its great that private businesses are taking the lead to motivate more people to get vaxxed. Things get done faster when corporate interests align with public/health interests.
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Gaudreau > Huberdeau AINEC
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I completely agree with you. The smallpox vaccine worked because it came before the rise of the anti-vax movement. If we had 100% vaccine compliance and timely roll-out of vaccine for everyone, COVID-19 could have been stopped in its tracks, at least in adults, and we would have had far less trouble with variant strains, if we even had any. It's too bad the minority who don't trust peer-reviewed research and prefer to get their medical advice from social media are driving the emergence of variant strains and increasing the risk for everyone else. They continue to argue about their right to choose but conveniently ignore the effects of their choices on everyone else, including increased health risks and the need to repeatedly shut down the economy.
It's funny, anti-vaxxers complain that society is trying to impose something a choice on them that they don't want, but they fail to take into account the consequences of their choices for everyone else. When you make a decision regarding prevention of an infectious disease, you are not only making a choice for yourself, you are making a choice for everyone in your community.
I'm not saying that anyone should be forced to have a vaccine. I am saying that nobody should be forced to be unnecessarily exposed to an unvaccinated person and unknowingly exposing themselves to a risk of being infected. So by making a choice to not be vaccinated, a person may also be making a choice to exclude themselves from non-essential activities, like attending a hockey game.
The anti-vaxx movement came about as a result of public knowledge of the components found in several vaccines. These components were considered problematic and generally cost-cutting measures, that could have been remedied by altering the delivery components to what the anti-vaxxers would deem acceptable, and pushing the cost forward.
The anti-vaxx movement could have been stopped right there. It wasn't, because of money. Now this #### has gone on way too long, and has taken a dark turn into covid.
IMO this issue is two dicks having a sparring match in the park.
Also, as an aside, with a global travel ability and porous borders, we were never really going to be able to wipe out this disease. This is always about protecting the healthcare system.
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"By Grabthar's hammer ... what a savings."
