[PGT] Season’s over 3-2 grease

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

Not even remotely fussed about this result.

The top 8 of this draft class are pretty decent.

Power, Eklund or Hughes would be cornerstone pieces of a retooled core.

Wins in the next 10 days would have clouded BTs judgement for trade deadline.

There is no chance and has been no chance since we lost 2 straight to Sens.

The focus now is to shop everyone including Gio, Rittich, and at least one of Mony/Johnny.

Johnny gets a NTC July 1. We are lucky to have a window to move him for assets now.

Everyone overpays in spring trade deadline, chasing the dream.

We have a unique opportunity to shed several at deadline and not even have to lose anyone of slight value in expansion.

Get on it BT. My opinion of you hangs in the balance. I am part of a shrinking minority that blames the core alot more than you at this stage. You got sold a bill of goods from this bunch of pretenders. Ship several out and retool.

Some good pieces are here with at least three solid prospects already in system (Pelletier, Wolf and Zary).

You are really setting yourself up for disappointment.

This isn't a deadline where you will see Giordano and one of Monahan or Gaudreau move.

Derek Ryan, David Rittich, maybe Josh Leivo. Potentially Sam Bennett. That's the exodus crew.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You are really setting yourself up for disappointment.

This isn't a deadline where you will see Giordano and one of Monahan or Gaudreau move.

Derek Ryan, David Rittich, maybe Josh Leivo. Potentially Sam Bennett. That's the exodus crew.

Treliving should be held to a higher standard than this, in my eyes.

He’s been absolutely inept when it comes to in-season moves for almost a half-decade. The only in-season moves of note during his time here was Glencross and Hudler.

At some point he has to start executing at a better level than he has been. If his trade deadline activity is just gaining late round picks off UFA trades, then that’s where I think I transition into the “yeah, okay - fire the guy”. I think it’s fair to start expecting Trleiving to execute at a higher level than he has to date.

[CaptainCrunch]

I doubt that there will be massive structural changes before the off season, or massive sell offs before the offseason.



We might as above lose parts that can help bolster a playoff teams depth. But I would be surprised to see Mony or Johnny or Gio being dealt, the cap situation and travel situation is way to complex. I would expect the week leading up to the draft to be the busy period.


As for last night, I wasn't surprised. I think the work ethic was there. But this team is just one big sack of lack of concentration and execution, its a team that's forgotten what their secret sauce is, and they play like they expect to lose. Confidence is everything for offense. There's no offensive confidence.



When they pulled the goalie, they battled along the board, then got the puck and treated it like a live grenade.


I was excited by this team at the start of the season, I thought BT had come out of the off season solving a lot of problems that plagued a playoff team last year. Boy was I wrong, and its painful seeing the Oilers literally fluking their way and riding a power play again.

[Heavy Jack]

I wanted this team/season to be different but clearly this core doesn’t have the will to win and we need to commit to reloading. Fully expecting that we don’t do what’s needed though.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You are really setting yourself up for disappointment.

This isn't a deadline where you will see Giordano and one of Monahan or Gaudreau move.

Derek Ryan, David Rittich, maybe Josh Leivo. Potentially Sam Bennett. That's the exodus crew.

That's probably correct, but with this covid alignment some teams may feel a bit more bold. I mean just in our division, with adding the right piece or two all of Toronto, Edmonton and Winnipeg should feel good about going to conf finals. It's probably similar in other divisions. So maybe teams will be more willing to go "all in"?

Our biggest problem is that the guys we want to trade are also the ones that have poor playoff record.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Treliving should be held to a higher standard than this, in my eyes.

He’s been absolutely inept when it comes to in-season moves for almost a half-decade. The only in-season moves of note during his time here was Glencross and Hudler.

At some point he has to start executing at a better level than he has been. If his trade deadline activity is just gaining late round picks off UFA trades, then that’s where I think I transition into the “yeah, okay - fire the guy”. I think it’s fair to start expecting Trleiving to execute at a higher level than he has to date.

Making the "big" moves now limits the amount of teams that can both afford and desire JG or any of the big slried guys.

Waiting until there is a larger demand for services leads to better compensation. Supply and demand and all that.

Unless there is a deal that you dont think can be matched, or surpassed, in the off season, you hold on to your assets and maximize them when you have more team interested/able to add them to their rosters.

Its just logical to do so.

[442scotty]

Remember Cammaleri?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

Remember Cammaleri?

You mean when he walked as a UFA?

Yes.

Not sure what you are getting at though.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Making the "big" moves now limits the amount of teams that can both afford and desire JG or any of the big slried guys.

Waiting until there is a larger demand for services leads to better compensation. Supply and demand and all that.

Unless there is a deal that you dont think can be matched, or surpassed, in the off season, you hold on to your assets and maximize them when you have more team interested/able to add them to their rosters.

Its just logical to do so.

This really hasn’t proven itself out when it comes to quality of return. Players getting traded in the off-season don’t seem to return anything more significant than those moved at the trade deadline.

Jason Zucker was going to return Frolik and a 1st (“and likely more” per Boomer at the time) at the deadline, he then returned a 1st, Galchenyuk, and Addison.

I think Giordano and Gaudreau, with money retained, are the most valuable they likely will be at this trade deadline...but that would of course require the Flames being willing to retain money (...which hey, just spend money on retaining in a trade and then don’t sign a free agent you have to buy out).

[Jiri Hrdina]

I certainly think BT should be understanding what the value is at the TDL for Johnny and Monahan and if there is a deal to be made there - do it.
But it is hard to determine how COVID will impact demand.
I anticipate a very slow TDL. But I could be wrong.
I would putting those players on the market immediately to understand the value.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Red

That's probably correct, but with this covid alignment some teams may feel a bit more bold. I mean just in our division, with adding the right piece or two all of Toronto, Edmonton and Winnipeg should feel good about going to conf finals. It's probably similar in other divisions. So maybe teams will be more willing to go "all in"?

Our biggest problem is that the guys we want to trade are also the ones that have poor playoff record.

I think there is a decent chance that a lot of GMs are convinced that they can fix these players with a change of scenery/role.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Silver lining is watching Canadian teams with ZERO chance at winning the cup spend assets that will eventually just go to waste. As much is this hurts it will feel better as they fall out of the playoffs with worse draft picks and wasted assets on rentals.

Have you guys seen the Avs lately...GL

Colorado is a weird team. They have looked unbeatable for a few years now, and yet always struggle to get past round #2.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I doubt that there will be massive structural changes before the off season, or massive sell offs before the offseason.



We might as above lose parts that can help bolster a playoff teams depth. But I would be surprised to see Mony or Johnny or Gio being dealt, the cap situation and travel situation is way to complex. I would expect the week leading up to the draft to be the busy period.


As for last night, I wasn't surprised. I think the work ethic was there. But this team is just one big sack of lack of concentration and execution, its a team that's forgotten what their secret sauce is, and they play like they expect to lose. Confidence is everything for offense. There's no offensive confidence.



When they pulled the goalie, they battled along the board, then got the puck and treated it like a live grenade.


I was excited by this team at the start of the season, I thought BT had come out of the off season solving a lot of problems that plagued a playoff team last year. Boy was I wrong, and its painful seeing the Oilers literally fluking their way and riding a power play again.

I agree with you on Gio due to loyalty. But he should start playing less minutes next season.

No idea what the ties are to Gaudreau. You’ll never win a cup with him. He’s too easy to take out of the game.

Similar sentiment on Monahan. All you have to do is play him physically and he dissappears.

[Iggy Snipe]

Calgary plain and simple has not been able to find ways to win. This team is not terrible. This team is not good. This team is frustrating and has played in a TON of one goal games this year, but has been on the losing side of most of them. How many leads have they blown? Enough. How many times have they came up just short? Too many. Thats the sign that the teams chemistry and make up just isn't right. You have a ton of good players on Calgary, but i do not believe we have a single GREAT player on Calgary. The proof is in the standings, and watching this team let its fan base down year after year, game after game.

Even going back to the Colorado series after they had the best record in the West. They blew THREE late 3rd period leads that resulted in losses. Even though they played awful in that series, they still could have won that series 4-0. It wasn't until game 5 when they really mailed it in.

For anyone who is talking about Mark Giordano being "moved", while I completely hope this is the case, it surely just will not happen. I don't know of any teams, including Seattle, who are looking for 38 year old making almost seven million per season, to get burned every shift, and play on their bottom pairing.

Giordano is not a top four pairing guy in this league anymore. He isn't a strong enough skater and at his age, he simply can't keep up. He is not a freak like Chara. Giordano is an average to below average sized defence-man who has played his best hockey two years ago. The man was absolutely lights out for a good stretch of time in his career, but those days are long gone. Its tough with Giordano being the captain, but he needs to play bottom pairing minutes. He will be much more tolerable and effective with less minutes. Mark Stone who has barley played looks better than Giordano, and i don't know if anyone would even argue that.

Johnny G and Sean M both need to be dealt. At minimum Johnny G, because you may not get much for Monahan, so maybe hold him hoping he rebounds. Johnny G is not going to be playing for Calgary next season. The writing is on the wall, and he simply can not perform at the level Calgary needs him to. As I have said before, he isn't "the guy", which is part of the problem with Calgary. They don't have "the guy".

Calgary needs to flip the script, and get back to the basics with re tooling this team and creating an identity. Not a new identity, an identity, as this team doesn't have one. Unless you call soft and slow an identity.

[CGY12]

Markstrom is apart of the solution. Doesn't make much sense to call him a bust because of 13 games playing behind Buffalo North.

With saying that I hope they continue to lose down the stretch. I've had enough of this core and enough of the GM. The only thing I can cling to with this organization is a high pick and a gut job come the offseason.

[Erick Estrada]

I can't believe how inept offensively this team is given they have several players that have been consistent 25-30 goal forwards. It's like the switch flipped off for good. Even strength, 4 on 4, powerplay, etc, it's almost futile once they get behind a goal. The Canadian division isn't even that good which is what is really concerning as it's a disaster of epic proportions.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

He had to make it interesting for the audience, as there was no chance the Flames were going to tie it up. ��

Where is Ball when needed!

"The Flames need a goal! They NEED one!! THEY NEED THIS GAME SO BAD!!!!"....meanwhile we watching at home like *insert Midwest fake smile kid here*.

He's trying so hard to build drama and suspense that isn't even there, and make the Oilers feel like they just achieved some huge victory. God they're annoying.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I agree with you on Gio due to loyalty. But he should start playing less minutes next season.

No idea what the ties are to Gaudreau. You’ll never win a cup with him. He’s too easy to take out of the game.

Similar sentiment on Monahan. All you have to do is play him physically and he dissappears.

I think honestly you give Gio that option that you will move heaven and earth to move him to a contender if that's what he wants. He's earned that. I'm not saying give away he farm to dump him, but give him that chance to chart the end of his career path.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You are really setting yourself up for disappointment.

This isn't a deadline where you will see Giordano and one of Monahan or Gaudreau move.

Derek Ryan, David Rittich, maybe Josh Leivo. Potentially Sam Bennett. That's the exodus crew.

Perhaps wishful thinking. Overpayment for playoff runs always best at trade deadline. A great GM gets the most for your assets. So many teams chase the dream.

Fly in the ointment this year is expansion. Might have to take something back others do not wish to protect.

Why wait for July 1 and NTC for Johnny trade?
We cannot protect Gio and Tanev both anyways in expansion draft. Why lose one when we can gain an asset now at trade deadline?

[Sylvanfan]

I think player values could go up a bit after the expansion draft happens. If you are dealing a guy with a year left on his deal, it becomes a player that the other team has to protect. Once that's over and done, less concern. I also think I may prefer to try and get first round picks in next years draft as opposed to this one, given how impacted this years class has been by Covid and not having a place to play. This may be an okay draft for some later picks as you may be able to find some later gems who didn't get to show themselves due to the current situation. The other factor is if the team getting a Giordano or Gaudreau has some bad injury luck, than the pick might move from 22-23 if traded for this years pick up to 15 or 16 type of thing, and even if it's lottery protected, and they miss the playoffs maybe even a top 12 type of thing.

Of course, you have to be willing to make a trade where the draft pick is the better value asset coming back. The Flames are more likely to trade Giordano for another Chris Butler or Cale Hulse, and with Gaudreau, probably take back a lesser 5 million dollar guy with 50 point upside, but to help them be mediocre for 3 more years.