[PGT] Bad final 40 sinks Flames

[Madrox]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

If he's in a franchise managed better than the oilers, yes.

If McDavid came into the situation that Crosby did, back in 04 with the pens, I think he'd be on a similar trajectory.

That's possible, but I don't know that it's guaranteed that he's top 5 in the last 20 years, much less 100. Offensively, he's there, but overall, he hasn't passed Crosby or Ovi, I don't think I take him over Lidstrom or Datsyuk, and you can make arguments about guys like MacKinnon or Bergeron. If I'm down by one in the last 5 minutes of a game, I'm as happy to have McDavid as any of those guys, but if I'm heading into game one of the playoffs, I don't think he makes my top 5.

[cannon7]

The good news about the outcome of this game is the Flames were their usual inconsistent selves. At least Sutter is seeing the same problems as Ward.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

I'm starting to wonder if Brodie/Giordano made each other better than we realized.

Rough game from a lot of key players, Markstrom included IMO.

The Flames really miss Brodie’s wheels.

[jessnuts]

Is
Johnny - Lindholm - Tkachuk
Dube - Monahan - Mangiapane
Lucic - Backlund - Bennett
A viable top 9 setup?

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Brodie is doing fine in Toronto I think

His pinpoint passing is missed here.

[Poe969]

As excited as I am, Sutter won't get a much different result than this. I'm guessing he comes in and sees how the team works, a couple changes are made and the results are likely the same, the Flames get a high pick and then big changes come in the off season.

I honestly think there is too much wrong with this team right now. I hope I'm wrong but this team just doesn't seem right.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

I think you need to see McDavid, without being a flame fan. He's lebron James in his first stint in Cleveland.

He can do things I think maybe 5 players in the past 100 years of ice hockey could do. His only negative is he plays for a franchise that is so inept, they can't create an avg team around him, making them a a perennial cup contender.

I hate it but it is true. We all knew this was going to happen the moment that lottery was won.

Sobering reality. Thank goodness he cannot be on the floor/ice the whole game like LeBron (even though the Oil try). This is not much different from the 80s. I became a Flames fan back then as a kid, looking for somebody to counter Gretz and the gang. 86 and 89 were extra sweet when sandwiched within that era.

Going to be fascinating to see how DS finds a way to neutralize him. Leafs figured it out. We won't have to wait long with two more BOAs March 15 and 17.

Playoffs are a marathon DS says. Well 10 games of BOA feels just the same.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by zamler

And sit players that don't feel like dedicating to the band. At least I hope.

One thing Sutter is a master at more than any coach i have ever seen is... sending a message.

He will purposely dress guys that others think should be watching from above, only to limit them to 9 or 10 minutes and mop up duty if the game is decided in the 3rd.

He will really help some guys on this club and others will find themselves elsewhere because of him. Who is in either group is a crapshoot at this point, but it will certainly happen.

[Lanny_McDonald]

It was a good effort, but still the Ward team. Everything about the game still had the Ward stink all over it. The better "team" lost. Edmonton had to put every egg they had in one basket to generate anything. By then the Flames had already fallen back into their prevent-victory defense system and the outcome was sealed up. If the Flames had kept pressing this would have been an easy win, but they got the lead - twice - and then sat back and gave the Oilers life. This is what ultimately has to change.

I think the Lindholm-Tkachuk experiment needs to end. These guys really do nothing out there. This is more of an indictment of Tkachuk than Lindholm, but since they put this combination together the others have been about as successful. I am really hoping that Sutter arrives, looks at the history of success with certain combinations and goes this way.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Bennett-Dube
Nordstrom-Ryan-Ritchie

This isn't rocket science. This is proven success for each line. Just get it done.

The whole McHobo thing is so annoying. You want to neutralize him? Keep the ####ing puck away from him? Keep it in the Edmonton zone where he and the German Gretzky are useless. Again, this isn't hard if you keep pressing and skating. The second you get back on your heels is the second you are dead. The Flames spend way too much time on their heels anticipating something bad happening. They are their own worst enemy. Sutter has to change that mentality trained into them. Unfortunately I don't think there is enough season left for that to happen. This is going to take time and there are more losses ahead before the wins start to come.

[Flamescuprun2018]

Source: http://moneypuck.com/g.htm?id=2020020383

68% vs 32%: Flames deserved to win.

3.4 vs 2.4 expected goals in our favor as well.

Play like that every night and we make the show.

Oil got the bounces tonite and we let McD be the difference.

Fortunately we get to move on with another tonite.

[tkflames]

I think the PGT title is a bit harsh. This was a very closely matched game between two good teams that had a playoff atmosphere. Loved Cuthbert as usual - something feels right about Cuthbert and Darryl. What's old is new again.

This team has another gear and if Darryl needs the points he can exploit it. After the 04 run, the biggest complaint about the flames is that they would dig a hole early and would have to work way too hard to make the playoffs that they were burnt out by the time they got there. Since (and Tre has said this), they want to roll 4 balanced lines and come in waves.

What I don't understand (and maybe the above is the reason) is why in a close game like this, the flames don't shorten the bench in the 3rd. Roll the following two lines:

Johnny-Monny-Lindholm
Chucky-Backlund-Mangiapane

Every 4 shifts run:

Nordstrom-Doc-Dube (or some other defensive combo that can get the puck out and force the opposition goalie to freeze the puck)

Matching Vali up a bit softer would also help...

This team refuses to shorten the bench early in the season, likely because it is using this time to experiment and balance work load, but I can't see a scenario where Darryl doesn't start doing this kind of in-game management.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by New Era

It was a good effort, but still the Ward team. Everything about the game still had the Ward stink all over it. The better "team" lost. Edmonton had to put every egg they had in one basket to generate anything. By then the Flames had already fallen back into their prevent-victory defense system and the outcome was sealed up. If the Flames had kept pressing this would have been an easy win, but they got the lead - twice - and then sat back and gave the Oilers life. This is what ultimately has to change.

I think the Lindholm-Tkachuk experiment needs to end. These guys really do nothing out there. This is more of an indictment of Tkachuk than Lindholm, but since they put this combination together the others have been about as successful. I am really hoping that Sutter arrives, looks at the history of success with certain combinations and goes this way.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm
Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane
Lucic-Bennett-Dube
Nordstrom-Ryan-Ritchie

This isn't rocket science. This is proven success for each line. Just get it done.

The whole McHobo thing is so annoying. You want to neutralize him? Keep the ####ing puck away from him? Keep it in the Edmonton zone where he and the German Gretzky are useless. Again, this isn't hard if you keep pressing and skating. The second you get back on your heels is the second you are dead. The Flames spend way too much time on their heels anticipating something bad happening. They are their own worst enemy. Sutter has to change that mentality trained into them. Unfortunately I don't think there is enough season left for that to happen. This is going to take time and there are more losses ahead before the wins start to come.

I thought the Flames were by far the better "team", they got beat by the best player though. That stuff happens at times.

Play like that every night (not realistic) and they will win far more than they lose.

Backlund was a complete drag on the club last night as well...even though he was effective against 97 for a good chunk of the his time. He is handling the puck like its a golf ball...hard to watch at times.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Backlund was a complete drag on the club last night as well...even though he was effective against 97 for a good chunk of the his time. He is handling the puck like its a golf ball...hard to watch at times.

Completely agree. Backlund has been horrible for quite some time. His puck handling was atrocious, but his decision making was even worse. I don't know how many times he had opportunity to clear the zone and made a bad decision with the puck. He really needs to get his head right and I think that starts with getting his line back together.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

LOL, there's no chance I'm wading through this monster thread, so I'll just post my thoughts here:

Everyone sees that the entire team came out incredibly strong in the first, and then the effort and aggressiveness waned over the remaining 2 periods. The team wasn't bad per se, but they didn't force the issue. That's the real problem with these Flames. They cannot consistently play a game where they exert their will over the opponent. That's mental, and that can be improved by Sutter's coaching.

I thought ahead of the game that there would be a handful of players who consistently brought a high-end effort throughout the entire game, and those would be the few players that Sutter wouldn't have to say anything to. The rest are going to need a lot of coaching to get out of this pattern. Those players who played a full 60?

Milan Lucic
Derek Ryan
Noah Hanifin
Chris Tanev

That's not a recipe for success if those are your most consistent players in a game. Lots of work to do for this team.

[Royle9]

Like another poster said I think this is more of a “let’s see who stays” audition rather than trying to salvage this season. It’s pretty late to turn things around and I think the majority of us agree that this was more than just a “Ward” problem, this core has gone through 5 coaches now.

I’m fully behind going all in for Eichel, he’s a true #1C we’ve all wished for. The question remains what would it take?

Mony, Tkachuk, Zary and a pick for Eichel and Reinhart?

Mantha is another great option for the RW side but what does that cost? We don’t have the space without moving 1 big piece or 2 smaller pieces.

Johnny and Monny are invisible when there’s no forward on the right side retrieving pucks and making space. Ferland was good at it, Hudler excelled at it for a smaller guy, Lindholm was that guy last 2 years. Until they address that I think the line struggles.

Johnny with Eichel would be an elite combo because Eichel is that guy but he also has an elite shot and hockey sense. But we still need someone on the right side, and would still have to give up a LOT to compete against other teams who likely have more youth to give.

Sutter is going to help in the long run, but I think it’s pretty clear this audition tape will further prove this core needs an enema and if Buffalo is blowing it up (again) you have to go all in on Eichel.

[tvp2003]

With Gio I’m starting to wonder if he’s thinking the game slower now. Every pass and shot is extremely telegraphed and I don’t see anything dynamic about how he plays in the o-zone. He still works hard in the d-zone and can play PK, but I think it’s time to take him off PP2 to keep his minutes lower. Hanifin or Valimaki should be given a chance there IMO.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

Sobering reality. Thank goodness he cannot be on the floor/ice the whole game like LeBron (even though the Oil try). This is not much different from the 80s. I became a Flames fan back then as a kid, looking for somebody to counter Gretz and the gang. 86 and 89 were extra sweet when sandwiched within that era.

Going to be fascinating to see how DS finds a way to neutralize him. Leafs figured it out. We won't have to wait long with two more BOAs March 15 and 17.

Playoffs are a marathon DS says. Well 10 games of BOA feels just the same.

I agree. I am definitely curious how Sutter builds a strategy against the oilers. If you can keep MvDavid/Draisatl from dominating the game, it should bode well. However, that's easily said than done.

It sucks that they are oilers, as they are both really amazing players, yet at the same time, at their best, are polar opposites. Mcdavid, at his best, can generate opportunities with sudden bursts of unbelievable speed, whereas, Draisaitl has that unique ability to just slow the game down with the puck on his stick, waiting for plays to materialize.

[rooster]

Originally Posted by Flamescuprun2018

Sobering reality. Thank goodness he cannot be on the floor/ice the whole game like LeBron (even though the Oil try). This is not much different from the 80s. I became a Flames fan back then as a kid, looking for somebody to counter Gretz and the gang. 86 and 89 were extra sweet when sandwiched within that era.

Going to be fascinating to see how DS finds a way to neutralize him. Leafs figured it out. We won't have to wait long with two more BOAs March 15 and 17.

Playoffs are a marathon DS says. Well 10 games of BOA feels just the same.

Well said. Badger Bob was one of the best at having a game plan to neutralize the best players on the other team. It seems like most coaches think they can win by playing their game but that doesn't always work with guys as good as Mcdavid. Big 6' 4" chicken #### bitch Draisatyl went after our two smallest guys Johnny and the Mangiapane and nobody did anything. In the late 80's half the team would have gone after him.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by tkflames

What I don't understand (and maybe the above is the reason) is why in a close game like this, the flames don't shorten the bench in the 3rd. Roll the following two lines:

Johnny-Monny-Lindholm
Chucky-Backlund-Mangiapane

Every 4 shifts run:

Nordstrom-Doc-Dube (or some other defensive combo that can get the puck out and force the opposition goalie to freeze the puck).

I don't think those two lines are good enough to take over a third period to maintain a win especially if they have to play in the defensive zone and try to get the puck out if the zone.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Look. Another old white man with a problem letting someone else in the room.

I just saw this post.

What an astonishing take.

So to be clear here...

One cannot be critical of a womans performance/abilities and come to a certain conclusion of those abilities....without being "another old white man"?

Geez...that seems like something a racist/bigot would say.

Basing someones abilities to assess THEIR own experiences with a broadcaster on either their age and/or skin color?

Fascinating.