[News] All-encompassing Bennett trade discussions thread

[SportsJunky]

Historical performance shows that he is a 3rd liner, yes, but this year he's barely above replacement level. Small sample size for sure but if the GM feels that is the direction he is going in, he probably wants to trade the guy.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by New Era

Because it is true. You can take all your fancy stats and try to spin them any way you like, but the reality is that Bennett does not produce regardless of the situation he is in. You cannot play him up the lineup and expose him to better level competition because he doesn't have the skill or brains to play at that level. He just doesn't produce and his presence drags the other players down.



Bennett scored 12 points last year in 52 games. Do you know who scored at a similar rate last season? Brett Ritchie (6 points in 27 games). Replacement level player?



Small sample size? That's almost 20% of the season. I thought that was the number that we agreed would determine the efficacy of Sam this season? Give him 20% of the season and see what he is. Sam is trending for six points this year. Replacement player level achieved.

You have an irrational dislike for underlying numbers that actually reinforce your argument. All while using a statistic to support your argument.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In order to make the playoffs the Flames have to be better than any three of Ottawa, Vancouver, Edmonton or Winnipeg. Given how poorly three of these teams have played thus far, it seems like a very reasonable assumption.

Sure looks two out of Calgary, Winnipeg and Edmonton will make it. I'm not quite ready to assume Flames will make it but I like their odds.

The B of A this year should be epic.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Because it is true. You can take all your fancy stats and try to spin them any way you like, but the reality is that Bennett does not produce regardless of the situation he is in. You cannot play him up the lineup and expose him to better level competition because he doesn't have the skill or brains to play at that level. He just doesn't produce and his presence drags the other players down.



Bennett scored 12 points last year in 52 games. Do you know who scored at a similar rate last season? Brett Ritchie (6 points in 27 games). Replacement level player?



Small sample size? That's almost 20% of the season. I thought that was the number that we agreed would determine the efficacy of Sam this season? Give him 20% of the season and see what he is. Sam is trending for six points this year. Replacement player level achieved.

No it's not true.

The stats aren't fancy ... it's points / ice time. If you find that fancy you must find a lot of stuff in life fancy.

I'm not pulling random numbers like "Bennett's fenwick against when playing Canadian teams is superior so ... " to make a point.

It's points normalized for ice time, and honestly the best ranking of production by NHL forwards you can use.

Sorry it doesn't fit well with your narrative, nor your need to grandstand with hyperbole.

How is Jeff Cowan's career going?

[Toonage]

Scott Rintoul says that Geoff Ward was quoted as saying Bennett comes out so they can get fresh faces in the lineup. Any word from morning skate?

If that fresh face is Simon, well, I don't know anymore.

Also heard a replay of a Friedman interview on NHL Network radio this morning saying the Flames had offers that were "making them think"

[camm13]

Virtanen has been scratched the last few games..

[Toonage]

Virtanen in tonight FWIW

[FlamesAddiction]

I wouldn't even know where to begin looking for this kind of stat, but how does Bennett effect the production of others on his line?

My hunch based on the eye test (which I recognize could be affected by confirmation bias), is that Bennett generally holds back the players he plays with. So while he may bang in a few dirty goals here and there, the plays generally die on his stick more than the other way around.

It just seems like he is always making poor decisions in the offensive zone and his shot is weak.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I’m guessing the fresh face is Buddy. Which is fine with me.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Scott Rintoul says that Geoff Ward was quoted as saying Bennett comes out so they can get fresh faces in the lineup. Any word from morning skate?

If that fresh face is Simon, well, I don't know anymore.

Also heard a replay of a Friedman interview on NHL Network radio this morning saying the Flames had offers that were "making them think"

Yeah they were just saying on the Rintoul show that the Flames were getting offers of significant returns for Bennett. If that's really the case then I don't understand why the deal hasn't been done already.

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Nordstrom has been the best penalty killing forward by a decent margin.

Five on five his xGF% is over 60% in four of his last five games.

He’s also been the most physical forward for us which is actually kind of sad. The player definitely hustles

Zero offensive ability at this level though

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Yeah they were just saying on the Rintoul show that the Flames were getting offers of significant returns for Bennett. If that's really the case then I don't understand why the deal hasn't been done already.

If they have a few significant offers I can definitely see why it is taking a bit of time.

[dustygoon]

I don’t see Bennett’s play to be sit worthy vs some others. I guess it’s a message to not let your agent mouth off!

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You're pulling the spreadsheet card? Really?

Be better ... or are you saying I don't watch hockey and just look up stats?

Honestly I'm interested to know.

Be better.

I feel like you often trot out stats in lieu of giving an actual opinion on the player/coach or given situation. The stats don't tell the whole story. Does Bennet help the team win when you are watching the play?

I'm not trying to be hostile, but when you watch his game, what do you see? Ranking him in stats league wide doesn't explain that.

I see a player that constantly has the play die on his stick, and lacks awareness. He throws the occasional solid hit. That's about it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by neo45

He’s also been the most physical forward for us which is actually kind of sad. The player definitely hustles

Zero offensive ability at this level though

I’m Ok with a 4th liner who hustles and PKs but can’t score. The 4th line for me is just a rest stop. But I’m not sure about his 5-5 defence. At the very least you don’t want to be concerned about goals against when he’s out there. Maybe Ward hasn’t been able to avoid bad matchups but if he’s good at PK, why is he being eaten up 5 on 5?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I feel like you often trot out stats in lieu of giving an actual opinion on the player/coach or given situation. The stats don't tell the whole story.
I'm not trying to be hostile, but when you watch his game, what do you see? Ranking him in stats league wide doesn't explain that.

I see a player that constantly has the play die on his stick, and lacks awareness. He throws the occasional solid hit. That's about it.

Bingo has made his opinion on Bennett crystal clear, and has used stats to support it.

You see a player with some flaws and inconsistencies, Bingo sees an average 3rd liner. These are not different things.

[Toonage]

Simon back in. Which is fine, I guess. But thats not really a fresh face. Rested I suppose.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

I'd like to see who they are using as comparables. Especially the 12 that turned into top 6 forwards.

They only name three:

Players like Lars Eller, Phillip Danault, and Mike Hoffman offer some hope that Bennett can turn the corner and provide some tangible value for the Flames, but it’s an unlikely path.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

4 wins (one of them a shootout)
5 losses

Bennett has played in EVERY game

"best for the team"

Exactly

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Bingo has made his opinion on Bennett crystal clear, and has used stats to support it.

You see a player with some flaws and inconsistencies, Bingo sees an average 3rd liner. These are not different things.

For accuracy, I see a player whose flaws and inconstancies outweigh his contributions.
I haven't seen Bingo's opinion so I'll wait for his response.