[News] All-encompassing Bennett trade discussions thread

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This just isn't true. Not sure why some of you have to create this narrative.

He's been disappointing, he's not a core piece, he certainly hasn't lived up to his draft billing ... but he produced like a 8-9 forward on an average NHL team. That's not replacement.

This year ... he's entering that replacement player realm with his start, but 9 games as a sample size doesn't amount to much for a label.

What does he do to help the team win? Is there a spreadsheet for that?

[Bill Bumface]

I just looked back at all of the Flames picks in the 2014 draft. Gross.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But he's also a low producing 3rd liner.
He was 335 last year in points amongst forwards
Which means in terms of production - he's a 4th liner.
He's a 4th liner producer with 3rd line underlying stats.
But at some point - the inability to translate those underlying metrics into actual production matters.

313th in points/60 at 1.11 which puts him at forward 10 on the average NHL team.

That was his worst season though.

1.57 and 1.41 / 60 in the two previous seasons which would put him in the forward 7-8 range ...

He's a third liner.

[SuperMatt18]

Bennett hasn't been good so I'm not that mad about the benching itself...but still think that Ward's overall bench management has been poor.

Leivo, Lucic, and Nordstrom are getting too much leash. Bennett has been poor too but I honestly think part of the problem is that Ward has not set up the bottom 6 for success.

I still think spreading the wealth around the top 9 is the way to have this team have success and loading up Mangiapane or Dube into the top 6 is what hurts that. I also am starting to wonder if we are better with Backlund/Tkachuk together.

I'd like to see them try out one of the two line combos below:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Simon
Tkachuk - Lindholm - Bennett/Leivo
Mangiapane - Backlund - Dube
Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom/Leivo/Bennett

or if you wanted to reunite Backlund & Tkachuk then:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Simon
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Dube - Lindholm - Leivo/Bennett
Lucic - Ryan - Nordstrom/Leivo/Bennett

[Erick Estrada]

Francis isn't a Flames insider so I instantly ignore anything he has to say. I'm assuming a trade is on the horizon. I can't imagine any other reason to take him out. He's not been the Flames worst forward and it doesn't help his trade value at all.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by bzoo02

Bennett and Lucic for DeAngelo and pick.

Immediately buy out DeAngelo.

Essentially a way to buyout Lucic.

And the Rangers do this why?

DeAngelo is peanuts to buy out. And the Rangers add a pick LOL?

It would be more like Lucic, Bennett and a 1st for DeAngelo. And I'm valuing DeAngelo as basically zero value. And I doubt the Rangers do that as cap space is King.

[Duffalufagus]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

It can't look good on management if the Flames turn up too soft or not motivated for playoffs..

you're assuming they make the playoffs.

[Bonded]

Interesting.

If it isn't trade related then kills even more of the little trade value he had

[Hey Connor, It's Mess]

Ondrej Kase, step on down.

[GioforPM]

Bennett v. Lucic sitting isn’t just a matter of who’s playing better. It’s who benefits from working through issues on ice to improve versus who needs to watch a game from the press box to improve.

Lucic to me is clearly a guy who gets better with more use. He doesn’t need to watch a game from up high to see where mistakes are made. His giveaway the other night was an execution error - he partially fanned an ill-advised pass, and he knows it. Sam, on the other hand, has positional and strategic issues which maybe need some reinforcement from watching the game.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Sam bennett was the 3rd ranked in hits on the team last year. Lucic had almost 100 more than him, Tkachuk had ~20 more than him, and Lindholm only had a ~10 less. These splits hold true almost exactly proportionally to the start of this season.

We don't need sam bennett just for hitting. That's a stupid reason to keep a player around, especially when we're already paying 6 mil for Lucic to do it twice as well.

You have to normalize the numbers though ... Lindholm plays a lot.

Last year hits/60

Lucic 14.5
Bennett 10.0
Tkachuk 7.2
Dube 6.8
Lindholm 5.0

Lindholm is literally half as physical.

I'm fine with trading Bennett, but they had better understand what they're trading.

He is physical.
He is a third liner.
He won't be more.

[bigpete]

I've been thinking about this and I have an idea about Bennett, I think he should be converted to a defenseman.

Now hear me out, he is pretty solid defensively and can throw some good hits and is physical so it could work. I think they should pair him with Valimaki on the third pairing for the next few games with limited minutes and see how that goes. Or maybe even with Tanev because Tanev would be a good teacher. And then if it works keep Bennett as a defenceman for the rest of the season and...oh God I can't continue this, just wanted to see how outraged I could make everyone reading this, take a deep breath and calm down everyone...

[FlamesAddiction]

I just noticed that Buddy Robinson is on the main roster now. I am guessing he is in for Bennett.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Duffalufagus

you're assuming they make the playoffs.

In order to make the playoffs the Flames have to be better than any three of Ottawa, Vancouver, Edmonton or Winnipeg. Given how poorly three of these teams have played thus far, it seems like a very reasonable assumption.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

4 wins (one of them a shootout)
5 losses

nordstrom has played in seven games

"best for the team"

Nordstrom has been the best penalty killing forward by a decent margin.

Five on five his xGF% is over 60% in four of his last five games.

[Wastedyouth]

We should just make Phaneuf a forward.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bingo

This just isn't true. Not sure why some of you have to create this narrative.

Because it is true. You can take all your fancy stats and try to spin them any way you like, but the reality is that Bennett does not produce regardless of the situation he is in. You cannot play him up the lineup and expose him to better level competition because he doesn't have the skill or brains to play at that level. He just doesn't produce and his presence drags the other players down.

He's been disappointing, he's not a core piece, he certainly hasn't lived up to his draft billing ... but he produced like a 8-9 forward on an average NHL team. That's not replacement.

Bennett scored 12 points last year in 52 games. Do you know who scored at a similar rate last season? Brett Ritchie (6 points in 27 games). Replacement level player?

This year ... he's entering that replacement player realm with his start, but 9 games as a sample size doesn't amount to much for a label.

Small sample size? That's almost 20% of the season. I thought that was the number that we agreed would determine the efficacy of Sam this season? Give him 20% of the season and see what he is. Sam is trending for six points this year. Replacement player level achieved.

[Freddy]

Bennett laid some heavy hits vs Winnipeg in game 1 and was talking to some big dudes between whistles in game 2. I think a trade is imminent and he’s being kept out of the lineup to ensure he’s healthy for his next team. I hope there’s been a bidding war for him and we get some quality back.

[Flamenspiel]

They should not be a rush to trade him, he is still effective and will be in great demand at the trade deadline, his playoff performance is consistently superb.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Igottago

What does he do to help the team win? Is there a spreadsheet for that?

You're pulling the spreadsheet card? Really?

Be better ... or are you saying I don't watch hockey and just look up stats?

Honestly I'm interested to know.

Be better.