2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Toffoli makes me nervous, seems like yet another near 30 year old mid tier UFA who is going to get a big UFA contract and then turn into a pumpkin.

Hall also carries this risk, but at least with Hall you are getting a career 0.90 point per game player and not a career 0.57 point per game player.

$7-8 million AAV for Hall or $5-6 million AAV for Toffoli, I go after Hall 1st and probably leave Toffoli alone.

Tyler Toffoli is 28-years-old. But I definitely agree with you insofar as making the choice between him and Hall.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Your premise is constructed on the belief that neither one of Gaudreau and Monahan is getting moved, and I am much less convinced of that. More to the point, I think there is a significantly higher likelihood that one of Gaudreau or Monahan is traded by Treliving than Mangiapane.

Put it this way: the only reason I would see to trading Mangiapane now is if 1) there is a substantial overpay on the table for him, or 2) he has priced himself out of the market.

Yes, that’s exactly it. If neither JG or SM are moved, what do the Flames do with their forwards.

I’m not so sure the Flames move JG or SM anymore. If one goes, they both go in my opinion. I would not want to see what one looks like without the other. Monahan needs a distributor. If you move Monahan, you can’t compete down the middle. Maybe you can move like-for-like, but that just leads to a multitude of other questions.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Tyler Toffoli is 28-years-old. But I definitely agree with you insofar as making the choice between him and Hall.

Yes he's 28, he'll be 29 in the middle of the 1st season of his next contract because the middle of the next season if things go as planned will be about April of 2021. I would say that's "near 30" which is exactly what I said. But we're splitting hairs here for sure haha

[Crown Royal]

The more I am thinking about things, the more I think we should try and use Bennett's great playoff to see if we can use him in a package to add a top 6 forward. We need to get deeper down the middle, that means either adding another top 6 center, or adding a winger and moving Lindholm to center.

If for example we could move Bennett + futures for someone like Domi, we could slide Lindholm to Tkachuk's line and Backlund to the 3rd line.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Ok so the Flames should trade one of their most effective forwards because "big."

I really don't subscribe to that belief. You can never have too many effective players, regardless of how big they are.

Too be clear, my distinction of Mangiapane as trade bait has nothing to do with his contributions to the Flames. I think that he is an excellent player who would fit well onto most teams. That is part of the reason why I think the Flames should consider trading him.

The fact of the matter is that the Flames need to make changes.
Because of the Flames cap situation the Flames can hardly make an impact on the UFA market. If they are going to make a tangible change it will need to come via trade.

Like it or lump it good players need to be moved to bring good players in.

The reasons why Mangiapane should be in trade conversations

1) He is redundant on the Flames roster. left shot, middle of the road production, small stature.
2) He is due for a raise. The Flames are going to have to bring in some ELC contracts if they want to bring in a top six player addition.
3) He is on the short list of good players who will be left exposed during the expansion draft
4) He is good enough and young enough to bring in a quality return that may help the Flames find sustainable success.


Reason four is the most important point. The Flames need to make a change and in order for that to happen and good player is going to be moved off their roster.

[Nelson]

https://twitter.com/Account4hockey/s...221108745?s=20

Sounds like Frederick Andersen is definitely available. If I was the Flames, I would be interested. He just turned 30, and he has a 91.7% save percentage over the course of his career. He has played over 60 games three times, and he has had on averaged a 91.8% save percentage over those three seasons. I think he has the potential to stabilize the position for three-four seasons.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Yes. Guess I’m guilty of a short memory. Although no two players are the same and Ferland never came close to 200/200/20. Anderson is somewhere between Michael Ferland plus and Tom Wilson lite.

The 200/200/20 thing is great I guess, but it doesn't really seem like a significant stat to care about. It was also just one season of work. Are you getting the Josh Anderson from 2018-19? Or the player from this year? Or the year before? Ferland and Wilson are who they are because it's the game they play significantly, you can't look at Anderson's one outlier season and say "that's who he is."

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So if you are the Jackets why would you move him? If the return is that low you are better off hoping he bounces back and keeping him.

They have no money because Dubois is getting a fat raise.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I’m not so sure the Flames move JG or SM anymore. If one goes, they both go in my opinion. I would not want to see what one looks like without the other. Monahan needs a distributor. If you move Monahan, you can’t compete down the middle. Maybe you can move like-for-like, but that just leads to a multitude of other questions.

I continue to maintain that the best thing to do is to move one, but not both. And for me, the one to move is Gaudreau on the balance of his value, the likely cost to extend him, and the strength that the Flames have on LW relative to centre. The only way I could see Monahan getting moved is in the event that the Flames upgrade down the middle, and I don't see that as remotely realistic.

But to your concerns, I haver also often thought that Monahan would be a better player away from Gaudreau. I think he is way too deeply embedded in his own head to the point that he is either always looking for Gaudreau to make a play, or to carry the puck. He has become so comfortable with how the pair plays together that it is detracting from the rest of his game. A shakeup on that line and a dramatic new look with a different player could be the best thing too happen to Monahan, which is also why I am a strong proponent for adding Hall, and trading Gaudreau this off-season.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yes he's 28, he'll be 29 in the middle of the 1st season of his next contract because the middle of the next season if things go as planned will be about April of 2021. I would say that's "near 30" which is exactly what I said. But we're splitting hairs here for sure haha

Toffoli is 5 months younger than Hall.

But I agree that I would look to sign Hall before Toffoli.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I continue to maintain that the best thing to do is to move one, but not both. And for me, the one to move is Gaudreau on the balance of his value, the likely cost to extend him, and the strength that the Flames have on LW relative to centre. The only way I could see Monahan getting moved is in the event that the Flames upgrade down the middle, and I don't see that as remotely realistic.

But to your concerns, I haver also often thought that Monahan would be a better player away from Gaudreau. I think he is way too deeply embedded in his own head to the point that he is either always looking for Gaudreau to make a play, or to carry the puck. He has become so comfortable with how the pair plays together that it is detracting from the rest of his game. A shakeup on that line and a dramatic new look with a different player could be the best thing too happen to Monahan, which is also why I am a strong proponent for adding Hall, and trading Gaudreau this off-season.

All things considered, if you were only to move one, I would move Gaudreau as well.

[TheIronMaiden]

I have an unhappy hunch that Hall will be an Avalanche this off season. they check all the boxes, a good team with tons of cap space.

Colorado has something like $22,364,405 with only 9 spots to fill. They could give hall the 10 M he wants and not even blink.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by TOfan

All things considered, if you were only to move one, I would move Gaudreau as well.

Gaudreau is the most obvious player to be traded. The question now is how much is two years of Gaudreau at 6.75M worth?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I have an unhappy hunch that Hall will be an Avalanche this off season. they check all the boxes, a good team with tons of cap space.

Colorado has something like $22,364,405 with only 9 spots to fill. They could give hall the 10 M he wants and not even blink.

They would be okay for the 2020–21 season, but next year they will be handing a blank cheque to Cale Makar, and will also need to re-sign their captain, who is presently scoring at a pt/gp clip.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I have an unhappy hunch that Hall will be an Avalanche this off season. they check all the boxes, a good team with tons of cap space.

Colorado has something like $22,364,405 with only 9 spots to fill. They could give hall the 10 M he wants and not even blink.

If I am Sakic I am taking on salary from GMs that need it, namely players that have a year left on their contract after this season. Looking ahead, they won't have much salary to hand out when they have Makar to re-sign and MacKinnon making only half of what he deserves. There's also Kadri later on if he wants to stay. Signing Hall could be a potential disaster in the future.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Gaudreau is the most obvious player to be traded. The question now is how much is two years of Gaudreau at 6.75M worth?

For a while I was arguing Cozens and Montour/Miller. But I’m not so sure Buffalo is going to give up Cozens especially if they don’t improve significantly. Why would JG resign after 2 years is up otherwise? I would think there will be other options for Gaudreau at that time.

Pike over at FN did a summary of similar trades from the past 2-3 years and the consensus seemed to be a roster player, a prospect, and a first. Start identifying teams that have those pieces and a reason to want to add JG and go from there.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I have an unhappy hunch that Hall will be an Avalanche this off season. they check all the boxes, a good team with tons of cap space.

Colorado has something like $22,364,405 with only 9 spots to fill. They could give hall the 10 M he wants and not even blink.

Colorado wouldn't give Panarin term because they're managing their cap to keep the team together long term.

Colorado would be much better served to acquire high level players who have contracts ending in time for Mackinnon's renewal.

Their one big free agency splash may be a goalie. If I were to bank on them paying for someone this October, it'd be Jacob Markstrom.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

I have an unhappy hunch that Hall will be an Avalanche this off season. they check all the boxes, a good team with tons of cap space.

Colorado has something like $22,364,405 with only 9 spots to fill. They could give hall the 10 M he wants and not even blink.

Six RFAs this year, then Makar the next, with Landeskog coming up to free agency, should eat a big bite in that $22M. Plus, they have a number of holes on the backend to be concerned about. They could easily sign Hall, but then they are kissing good bye to Landeskog and some of the holes they should be worried about on the blueline. I wouldn't mind if Hall went there and the Flames had to settle for Toffoli. Think he might be a better fit for need if the Flames don't want to deal Gaudreau.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Colorado wouldn't give Panarin term because they're managing their cap to keep the team together long term.

Colorado would be much better served to acquire high level players whose contracts end in time for Mackinnon's renewal.

Their one big free agency splash may be a goalie. If I were to bank on them paying for someone this October, it'd be Jacob Markstrom.

Ooooooh. That's interesting. They could easily move Grubauer for a pick.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Ooooooh. That's interesting. They could easily move Grubauer for a pick.

I think they're learning something right now - they need a better tandem. Grubauer has 1 year left at a touch over $3M.

Sign Markstrom, and run the tandem with Grubauer for one season - especially if the schedule is condensed. They'd still have cap space to acquire some additions via trade as well.

Francouz makes $2M, and next year $925K of that could be buried while he plays in the AHL if he clears waivers. Three goalies deep, or goodbye to a depth goalie on waiver.

They also have Byram stepping in next season ffs which allows them to either trade an RFA like Zadarov, or run a crazy deep group of 7 during a condensed schedule.

...Colorado is going to win the Stanley Cup next season.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Yes, that’s exactly it. If neither JG or SM are moved, what do the Flames do with their forwards.

I’m not so sure the Flames move JG or SM anymore. If one goes, they both go in my opinion. I would not want to see what one looks like without the other. Monahan needs a distributor. If you move Monahan, you can’t compete down the middle. Maybe you can move like-for-like, but that just leads to a multitude of other questions.

I would love to see what Johnny looks like without Monahan and with a puck carrying centre.

Unfortunately we don't have that & there's almost no possibility we accomplish that on the Flames so we'll have to watch him light it up somewhere else.

I understand the contract situation, trading him before we lose him for nothing (or much less than now) etc etc; but I'm fully confident in him getting back to a point per game player it's gonna sting watching him on the highlight reals for years to come.