2019/2020 Trade Speculation and Rumors 2.0

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't get why people keep including Mangiapane in trade rumors.

In terms of 200ft play he's been one of our best forwards the last two seasons.

Why do we want to get rid of him?

Depth of position mainly. Even if you move Johnny we have a full compliment of LW at our disposal. You could presumably subtract 2 LW to address other areas of need and still sign a middle 6 LW fairly easily and cheaply. Its the most abundant position in hockey IMO.

Then Factor in the possibility of Taylor Hall coming in....then why not exchange assets that address other needs?

And, its always a good day when you can move a 6th round pick to get better things elsewhere.

And on top of that, pretty much everyone on the roster has been talked about in trade scenarios, its just conversation, so why not? Its not like fan posting has any real bearing on what the team will do.

And I suspect Mangiapane is going to be headed to arbitration. Like I'm pretty much convinced that its going to go down like that.

[AustinL_NHL]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Mangiapane is my dark horse trade chip. Would be hugely unpopular, but he seems to be an asset that we have a surplus of. That being small skilled highly competitive (Dube, Phillips, Peltier).

Mentioned it a few days ago, but I would explore moving him for Josh Anderson. Have to know about Anderson’s shoulder though.

Mangiapane had the second most 5v5 goals on the Flames this year with 15 (Lindholm 1st with 17 & Tkachuk 2nd with 12) and the 3rd most 5v5 Primary Assists with 11 (Gaudreau and Backlund both had 13).

26 of his 29 5v5 points were Primary Points, which led the team.

He also led the team in total points/60 5v5 at 2.02/60.

His ixGF/60 (0.8), iSCF/60 (9.4) and iHDCF/60 (4.25) were all also 1st or 2nd on the team.

Not to mention he had the best possession and scoring chance rates by far across the board among all Flames forwards despite having the 3rd lowest Offensive Zone Start % (45.27%).

In no way whatsoever do we have a "surplus" of Andrew Mangiapane's.

Trading Mangiapane would flat out be dumb. Trading him for Josh Anderson would be a travesty.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I don't get why people keep including Mangiapane in trade rumors.

In terms of 200ft play he's been one of our best forwards the last two seasons.

Yet people keep including him in trades that aren't really upgrades, or as a throw in on a bigger deal. Makes no sense.

Because people like trading young players who might not end up on the first line. Mangiapane, Pelletier, Bennett, I've seen proposals with Valimaki, etc.

That's all well and good if you're a contender and you're making a push or if you have a lot of talent in the pipeline and have a few guys needing big deals. But if you're in the Flames position, you'd be stupid to do it. Having young players with manageable contracts and high NHL-potential (high potential for making the NHL, not just top line) prospects is what teams need to actually get to that status.

People love throwing in prospects, young middle-six guys, and draft picks for older players to fill out the roster, when doing that too much is what got us into this problem in the first place. I don't understand it. We trade Mangiapane and Rittich and 2nd for Anderson and Korpisalo? Two maybe upgrades that make us older? Because of one good season two years ago and one good playoff run? Yikes.

These are the trades you make if you think you're a piece or two away from the cup, not just some sustained playoff success. If that was our situation, I get it, but it's not. Even if we're retooling a bit, you don't trade young guys, prospects, and high picks. Retool at the top, and see what you can fill out through your pipeline and UFA.

[Roof-Daddy]

If the Flames sign Hall....

Tkachuk - Monahan - Lindholm
Hall - Bennett - XXXXX
Dube - Backlund - XXXXX
Lucic - Ryan - XXXXX

There is also Pelletier and Petterson in the system as left shot left wings.

Still pretty strong on the left wing, and what kind of assets are you getting for Gaudreau and Mangiapane?

Gaudreau being a potential flight risk and Mangiapane a potential arbitration case.

People need to understand that the majority of Flames don't dislike Gaudreau or Mangiapane...or whoever. It's about filling needs by dealing from a position of strength.

Just for shots and giggles, swap Gaudreau for Tom Wilson and Mangiapane for Josh Anderson.

Tkachuk - Monahan - Lindholm
Hall - Bennett - Wilson
Dube - Backlund - Anderson
Lucic - Ryan - XXXXX

How much harder is that team to play against than the version we currently have?

Just an example.

[SuperMatt18]

Well Washington isn't trading Tom Wilson.

And Josh Anderson is coming off a major injury, and is a worse 200ft player than Mangiapane. So we might get bigger, but don't know if we actually get any harder to play against.

Mangiapane and Dube both have been able to play on the Right Side with no issue. So not sure why we need to move them to the left side.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Mangiapane had the second most 5v5 goals on the Flames this year with 15 (Lindholm 1st with 17 & Tkachuk 2nd with 12) and the 3rd most 5v5 Primary Assists with 11 (Gaudreau and Backlund both had 13).

26 of his 29 5v5 points were Primary Points, which led the team.

He also led the team in total points/60 5v5 at 2.02/60.

His ixGF/60 (0.8), iSCF/60 (9.4) and iHDCF/60 (4.25) were all also 1st or 2nd on the team.

Not to mention he had the best possession and scoring chance rates by far across the board among all Flames forwards despite having the 3rd lowest Offensive Zone Start % (45.27%).

In no way whatsoever do we have a "surplus" of Andrew Mangiapane's.

Trading Mangiapane would flat out be dumb. Trading him for Josh Anderson would be a travesty.

So what’s your pecking order? For the sake of argument let’s lump the sub 6’ 200 lbs forwards in the system. Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Dube, Philips, Pettersson, Pelletier, Philp (missing anyone?)...seems like quite a few, no? Not only that looking at a few of the players who should be on the table around 19 at the upcoming draft, a lot look to have the same attributes. What do you do? Hold on to all of them? Move who?

Mangiapane for Anderson might just be two names included in a larger deal but point being the Flames do have a surplus of small skilled competitive wingers. There is risk with Anderson and his shoulder (you have to know what you’re getting) but there is a decent amount of smoke here and has been for a while.

No doubt Mangiapane is valuable as has been discussed quite a bit but it wouldn’t surprise me, whether it is Mang or otherwise, where a player is moved and it going to catch people off guard.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I still think it is misguided to hyper-focus on Philadelphia as a trade destination for Gaudreau. The value within not having to deal with the NTC is precisely the option of negotiating with multiple teams and settling on the highest return without regard for the destination itself.

But the reason for the focus is because the likelihood of a team giving the best offer will be in lockstep with their chances of re-signing Gaudreau. So Philly will likely get you a much better return then say Colorado who knows they're likely getting him for two years and no more.

[TheScorpion]

Ok so the Flames should trade one of their most effective forwards because "big."

I really don't subscribe to that belief. You can never have too many effective players, regardless of how big they are.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Ok so the Flames should trade one of their most effective forwards because "big."

I really don't subscribe to that belief. You can never have too many effective players, regardless of how big they are.

Nobody said "big" as a finality. It was just an example. You could move those two players for any number of different types of assets, they have value and are something the Flames have a surplus of, especially if they do sign Hall.

However, BIG and effective is always better than small and effective, if you have the choice between the two.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by TOfan

So what’s your pecking order? For the sake of argument let’s lump the sub 6’ 200 lbs forwards in the system. Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Dube, Philips, Pettersson, Pelletier, Philp (missing anyone?)...seems like quite a few, no? Not only that looking at a few of the players who should be on the table around 19 at the upcoming draft, a lot look to have the same attributes. What do you do? Hold on to all of them? Move who?

I personally think Gaudreau gets moved.

Mangiapane: Small but doesn't play small.

Dube: Pretty much 6'0" and based on his playoff play he's added some weight and doesn't play small.

Philips and Pelletier are still prospects and we should not be making roster decisions based on their size.

Philp is unlikely to ever see NHL action.

Personally I don't think Managiapane or Dube's size held them back at all, including in the playoffs. They are guys that may be shorter, but they are strong on the puck and are thicker than a guy like Gaudreau is. So I have no concern with both of them on the roster.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Ok so the Flames should trade one of their most effective forwards because "big."

I really don't subscribe to that belief. You can never have too many effective players, regardless of how big they are.

I’ll take your point, but let’s not lose sight of Anderson’s 27 goal season. Something Mangiapane has yet to hit. He’s more than ‘big’. We’re not talking about Lawson Crouse.

You sold on Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane moving forward?

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by TOfan

So what’s your pecking order? For the sake of argument let’s lump the sub 6’ 200 lbs forwards in the system. Gaudreau, Mangiapane, Dube, Philips, Pettersson, Pelletier, Philp (missing anyone?)...seems like quite a few, no? Not only that looking at a few of the players who should be on the table around 19 at the upcoming draft, a lot look to have the same attributes. What do you do? Hold on to all of them? Move who?

Mangiapane for Anderson might just be two names included in a larger deal but point being the Flames do have a surplus of small skilled competitive wingers. There is risk with Anderson and his shoulder (you have to know what you’re getting) but there is a decent amount of smoke here and has been for a while.

No doubt Mangiapane is valuable as has been discussed quite a bit but it wouldn’t surprise me, whether it is Mang or otherwise, where a player is moved and it going to catch people off guard.

The answer is easy, keep everyone!!! This team is amazing as is and not a single player should be moved because with any luck, this team might win a playoff round next year!!!

This team is not as good as the sum of its parts. There are people who want to keep a certain player and make a great argument for keeping them. Then someone else has a great argument for keeping a different player. What people aren't looking at is the big picture...this team isn't good. Well they're not good enough at least. They could keep the team together and compete with the other mediocre teams in hopes that they make the playoffs because "anything can happen". Talking to some fans of the Flames is like talking to someone in an abusive relationship..."the Flames have been a certain way for the past 30 years but this year is different, I can just tell!" Fans of this team need to step back and take a good hard look at things. This team isn't a bunch of young super star prospects that are maturing another year and it'll all come together. They're not, they're not good enough to compete with great teams and while other teams are improving, they seem to stay the same or add an overpriced average at best player.

This team needs a complete rebuild that is done properly. They need to commit to building a good team and if they have any success, they can't spend assets to compete too quickly. This team just isn't good enough.

[Flash Walken]

The way mangiapane was tearing it up at the break he was on his way to a 25+ goal season.

I don't understand the allure at all.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The way mangiapane was tearing it up at the break he was on his way to a 25+ goal season.

I don't understand the allure at all.

And this is mostly 5v5 play against other teams top lines.

[Roof-Daddy]

Mangiapane had 9 goals and 17 points in his last 19 games of the regular season. That's pretty much from about the time they put him in the top 6 with Backlund and Tkachuk.

The guy is a player, no one is denying that. If they keep him, great. But he could also be used as a valuable trade chip too, for something else the Flames need because they are deep on left shot wingers.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by jayswin

But the reason for the focus is because the likelihood of a team giving the best offer will be in lockstep with their chances of re-signing Gaudreau. So Philly will likely get you a much better return then say Colorado who knows they're likely getting him for two years and no more.

I am not convinced of this. Teams like Colorado, Boston, TB, StL would almost certainly be interested in two years of service from a player like Gaudreau to put them over the top in a limited window of competitiveness. Teams like Buffalo, NYI, NYR, NJD, could likewise make strong pitches on the realistic belief of extending him after two years. There are plenty of NHL teams who would be very keen to add Gaudreau for various reasons, and I don't believe for a second that all of them would be content just to let him slide over to Philadelphia because that is where he lives.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Ok so the Flames should trade one of their most effective forwards because "big."

I really don't subscribe to that belief. You can never have too many effective players, regardless of how big they are.

I’ll also add in the 18/19 season there were three players that had 200 hits, 200 shots on goal, and broke the 20 goal barrier; Alex Ovechkin, Blake Coleman, and Josh Anderson.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I’ll take your point, but let’s not lose sight of Anderson’s 27 goal season. Something Mangiapane has yet to hit. He’s more than ‘big’. We’re not talking about Lawson Crouse.

You sold on Tkachuk-Backlund-Mangiapane moving forward?

Mangiapane had 5 less goals (17 vs 22) at even strength than Anderson had in 2018-19, and he played in 14 less games, and played 4 less minutes on average per night.

He also had a better Corsi than Anderson did in that season, scored more in the playoffs in the same number of playoff games that Anderson played that season, and did it a year younger than Anderson had.

And let's not forget the whopping 1 goal Anderson managed in 26 games before he got injured.

If the question is whether you should be more sold on Mangiapane or Anderson going forward, it's Mangiapane 100%.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Nobody said "big" as a finality. It was just an example. You could move those two players for any number of different types of assets, they have value and are something the Flames have a surplus of, especially if they do sign Hall...

Has anyone looked closely at the list of Tampa Bay's top-scoring forwards?

Nikita Kucherov — 5'11", 180 lbs
Steven Stamkos — 6'1", 194 lbs
Braydon Point — 5'10", 166 lbs
Alexander Kilorn — 6'1", 194 lbs
Anthony Cirelli — 6'0", 193 lbs
Andrej Palat — 5'11", 194 lbs.

Only two players measuring over 6' tall, not a single forward weighing in at over 200 lbs, and this team is playing in the East Final. The point being that size is becoming less and less relevant to team building. If the Flames are trading a player, I sure hope it is not because he is small.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I’ll also add in the 18/19 season there were three players that had 200 hits, 200 shots on goal, and broke the 20 goal barrier; Alex Ovechkin, Blake Coleman, and Josh Anderson.

This bit of information does not entice me to aggressively pursue Josh Anderson.