Sean Monahan 2020 and Beyond

[Dajazz]

Having Monahan and Gaudreau at under 7m is a boon, not a curse. You add to these players.

While I’d consider trading Gaudreau due to the flight risk and contract, I am not moving Monahan unless for a king’s ransom.

Split them up. Add more forward depth. Monahan is playing second fiddle to JGs run and gun. Let him play with Tkachuk for a while. Let JG play with Lindholm.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I can't believe people are still trying this awful "not a winner!" line after watching Ryan O'Reilly.

This is what he said not long before he went and led the Blues to a cup:



He openly admitted he had become ok with losing and didn't love the game anymore. And then he turned it around and won a cup.

"Not a winner"... yeah, neither was O'Reilly.

ROR is one of the best, if not the best, defensive centres in the NHL. He plays as hard without the puck as he does with it. He’d be a coveted #3 C in this league even if he was a 20 pt guy.

Monahan is probably the worst #1 C without the puck in the NHL. He’ll be out of the league if he ever drops below 15 g in back-to-back seasons because he brings absolutely nothing to the table besides sniping. He’s the centre version of James van Reimsdyk.

[IrishSpring2013]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

ROR is one of the best, if not the best, defensive centres in the NHL. He plays as hard without the puck as he does with it. He’d be a coveted #3 C in this league even if he was a 20 pt guy.

Monahan is probably the worst #1 C without the puck in the NHL. He’ll be out of the league if he ever drops below 15 g in back-to-back seasons because he brings absolutely nothing to the table besides sniping. He’s the centre version of James van Reimsdyk.

Okay.. but is that what PepsiFree was arguing?

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013

Okay.. but is that what PepsiFree was arguing?

The whole Avs organization came under fire for not progressing while O'Reilly was there, but O'Reilly wasn't singled out. He was criticized for being 'difficult' due to his contract dispute. Which had nothing to do with his on-ice play.

With the Sabres, O'Reilly had one interview towards the end of his tenure where he was unusually candid. Does anyone really think he's the only NHL star who was frustrated playing on a terrible team and that it affected his motivation? The only thing that makes O'Reilly different from dozens of other players is he actually shared his feelings with reporters.

Being a winner maps very closely with playing hard without the puck. Teams typically do not make the step to becoming consistently challengers or Cup winners until their star players buy in to sacrificing individual stats and glory in order to play the right way.

Nobody has ever doubted O'Reilly's dedication to playing hard and playing the right way on the ice. Any comparisons between him and Monahan are fallacious.

[IrishSpring2013]

So that's all great but I'm not exactly sure who you're arguing against..?

The point was simply that the "he's not a winner" line is always true.. until it isn't. It's a lazy line used by fans and media. It was used as a criticism against Phil Kessel until he won and it was 100%, it was used against Ovechkin and it was used against Ryan O'Reily in Buffalo and early in St Louis until that team went turbo and turned it around.

O'Reilly's dedication was in question in Buffalo, especially a month after signing a seven year deal he drunkenly smashed his truck into a Tim Horton's then fled the scene.

Let's not argue against a point no one was making.

[Saqe]

Wrong thread

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I've wondered a lot whether Monahan is the cause or the victim of the lack of centre depth.

I think in an ideal world he is a winger, and the lack of centre options in the organization the entire time he's been with the team has cast him into a position he's not ideally suited for.

He's the best option the team has, but that's really the problem, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I remember the end of his career which was not spectacular.

I think another comparison is Elias Lindholm, a much better winger than centre.

This is probably a better thread for these posts.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Off topic but holy crow Tim Kerr was a beast until his body broke down. I feel like he doesn’t get enough attention. One of my favourite players

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013

...The point was simply that the "he's not a winner" line is always true.. until it isn't. It's a lazy line used by fans and media. It was used as a criticism against Phil Kessel until he won and it was 100%, it was used against Ovechkin and it was used against Ryan O'Reily in Buffalo and early in St Louis until that team went turbo and turned it around...

For years, Pavel Datsyuk was too soft and not tenacious enough to succeed in the playoffs. The book on him was that he was a terrific regular-season performer who could not raise his game to another level when time and space disappeared, and the checking got more relentless. And then, 2006 happened. He turned 28-years-old and flipped a switch. He became a dominant post-season player and helped to lead his team to a Stanley Cup the following year.

There is no formula for when the switch flips.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Since he entered the League Monahan is the #16 scoring centre in the entire NHL, and ahead of such stalwarts as O'Reilly, Johansson, Schenn, Duchene, Couturier and Krejci. Players of that calibre who are 25-years old are not playing on anyone's third line.

And yet, ignoring age and contract status I'd easily trade Monahan for half the players on that list right now. It's not all about points.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Off topic but holy crow Tim Kerr was a beast until his body broke down. I feel like he doesn’t get enough attention. One of my favourite players

He got it done in the playoffs too.

I mentioned this in another thread but there are similarities to Monahan I suppose, but Kerr at his peak was better. As a winger he had less responsibilities though and there were some other complete players on those Flyer teams to get him the puck.

Still holds record for most PP goals in a season I believe.

[Fourteen FTW]

Currently :

[Fourteen FTW]

He’s 6’3. He needs 20+ pounds of muscle and some anger. This can be done. Would take 2 years. He has the size and decent speed. Terrible puck handler great shoot. Mediocre passer. I think size and strength is his only ticket to being a relevant first liner. A great passer can make a almost anyone with an nhl skill set a pretty solid goal scorer. JG needs a corner beast of a Center who can dig out the hard pucks back check a little more and can finish. Mony has one of 3 of these traits.

[NewFan]

My biggest concern is Monahan can't play like the puck driving C. He can't skate with puck, can't hold the puck and can't win board battles. That's why Ward wanted Backlund play with him to share some of the C duties.
We need find a coach who can implement system to use Johnny and Monny more effective. Or bring Hall type game driving winger that can bring the puck O zone and feed Monahan.
If we can find true 1st line C type player I would trade Monahan for a big faster goal scoring W.

[Dajazz]

Monahan was always a cerebral, two way centre until he met Johnny and turned in to a tic-tac-toe garbage goal one timer specialist. He’s always has way more assists than goals in his career.

I sound like a broken record; but Johnny and Monahan needs to be separated. It’s gone stale and one dimensional.

Monahan is a very gifted and smart player. He will adapt, but is kept being forced in to the same role since Johnny keeps playing the exact same way. Monahan tried this year to change his game which was obvious if you watched him.

Split them up. Let him play with MT and Mangiapane or find another scoring winger. Let JG play with Lindholm and Backlund so the puck carrying and zone entries gets more balanced. Let him centre Lindholm and whoever, doesn’t matter, just split them up.

[868904]

I’m really conflicted about Monahan. I could see that he was really trying to focus on his defensive game this year and also on being more physical. He threw his weight around in the playoffs this year but because they aren’t Bennett level type impacts, I feel like they get ignored.

His offense wasn’t at levels we expect in the regular season but he actually led this team in playoff scoring. His playoff points per game is at 0.70 compared to 0.75 on the regular season so historically, his playoff production has been on par. Yes he didn’t score much at all 5 on 5 this year but he didn’t get scored on much either. In fact, the Stars I believe matched the Seguin line against him the most and that line was basically shut down against the Flames.

I’d be ok if they traded Monahan if they got a great return, like Cozens. But a part of me would like to see him with a guy like Hall who isn’t just going to pass it to him all the time.

I agree with those that said Mony’s game has devolved too much into always looking for the pass from Gaudreau in the high slot. The Tim Kerr discussion is interesting because I think Monahan actually needs to score more garbage type goals. Instead of the high slot, he should be right in front of the net, banging in rebounds and redirections. Someone with such a storied lacrosse background like him should really be making his living in front of the net.

[Philly06Cup]

Strongly agree with the comparison to JvR.



He's been a garbage-man passenger to Gaudreau for years now.



Agree that he needs to find his own game. Separating him from JG might force him to play more assertively.



Can he? I'm skeptical. He needs to develop his possession, puck control, defense, physical play and board work. That is a lot of areas he needs to work on. In 3-5 years, I could definitely see him being a 3rd line center.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by dammage79

I want to keep Monahan. I think the playoff whiffs are fair to criticize but his impact overall on this franchise far exceeds that of a handful of playoff games.

You just simply do not trade your best center when the entire franchise has been without one for decades prior. Of all the players who deserve extra lives he is the 1st.

To be fair, Craig Conroy and Daymond Langkow were much more 1st line center material than Monahan is or was.

If you want to keep rolling the dice on this guy to finally grow some cojones and compete hard every night, that's your prerogative, but it is abundantly clear this team is going nowhere with him lining up against the heavyweights of the western conference.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

To be fair, Craig Conroy and Daymond Langkow were much more 1st line center material than Monahan is or was.

If you want to keep rolling the dice on this guy to finally grow some cojones and compete hard every night, that's your prerogative, but it is abundantly clear this team is going nowhere with him lining up against the heavyweights of the western conference.

To be fair to Monahan, Craig Conroy and Daymond Langkow's winger did a lot more than Monahan's winger does.

Monahan doesn't shy away from physicality during play. But he certainly doesn't mix it up after whistles which can bother some people.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Off topic but holy crow Tim Kerr was a beast until his body broke down. I feel like he doesn’t get enough attention. One of my favourite players

50-goal scorer for basically 6 seasons (5 really, as one was an injury write-off before he came back and won the Masterton). Same size as Monahan (which was "bigger" in the 80's). Made his living in the "paint". Given the scoring rates when Kerr played, Monahan's totals compare really well. If he was a winger in that mold, rather than a C, we would be happier I think. We thought he was initially trending to be Toews or Niewendyk.