Sean Monahan 2020 and Beyond

[scotty2hotty]

Turf the bum. I’m completely sick of him.

[Corral]

He’s on a good contract doesn’t whine and produces as the top centre. He’s going nowhere.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by Corral

He’s on a good contract doesn’t whine and produces as the top centre. He’s going nowhere.

Then the Flames are going nowhere for the term of his contract. He produces points ... but he’s not a winner.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by wretched34

As you just pointed out, in 2018-2019, when all 3 forwards forechecked, and played the puck, they all saw a huge increase in production.
Does that not essentially drive home the point, that when Monahan makes plays, the entire line reaps the rewards, where as when he is stuck waiting on Johnny to make something happen, less and less actually happens.

This is why a Line of Hall-Monahan-Tkachuk could be incredible.
All 3 have size, some snarl, and a tonne of skill.
Any one of those 3, at any given time could win a battle below the goal line, and know full well, that if they threw the puck to the slot, someone will be there. As it stands now, Lindholm is the only one on the top line that can battle below the line, because if Monahan does, there is no one in the slot.
Having Johnny float along the boards creates a huge disadvantage for the line because it means his teammates are limited to what they can do. This is why Monahan plants himself in the slot, and nothing else.

Well they were successful for a few months, but the exact same system this year and even parts of last season yielded little success. The opposition has made an adjustment and that line became neutralized. The biggest problem I've been seeing is that all 3 players struggle with pace, none are particularly fast, especially Monahan, so their forecheck is generally pretty ineffective.

What I'd love to see is a Mackinnon-Gaudreau duo who we saw with team North America. They were probably the best combo on that team which included the likes of McDavid and Matthews together. I think Gaudreau would play better if he's a guy not constantly asked to drive the line. But obviously, the Flames aren't getting a Mackinnon or a player of this ilk, so at this point, I'm open for a trade before his contract is over.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Then the Flames are going nowhere for the term of his contract. He produces points ... but he’s not a winner.

That may be the case, but you could say that for a lot of very talented players. Some folks here are gaga for a fellow named hall. Also not a winner

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

And one of the biggest defensive liabilities on the team.

You are badly overblowing Monahan's defensive game, but soft defensive play is not something even remotely uncommon for a centre playing the top-six on many NHL teams.

Sean Monahan is not a third-line centre.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

Then the Flames are going nowhere for the term of his contract. He produces points ... but he’s not a winner.

No one is a winner until he is. NHL history is littered with players who have struggled in the playoffs until figuring it out after several years.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

The thing is, Monahan used to do it. That first season that he and Gaudreau played together he carried the puck into the offensive zone a lot, and it was a big part of what made that duo so dangerous, and which got many of us so excited.

I maintain that the two of them became just so comfortable with one another that for Monahan it was increasingly more natural to defer to Gaudreau, who emerged as the one who chose to carry the puck all the time to begin with.

Any time that I've seen Monahan carry the puck in, it's because Gaudreau has been able to draw defenders to him allowing Monahan the space to do so. There seems to be a book on this line which I think has hurt their transition game. If you apply any type of back pressure on this line and corner Gaudreau towards the boards, a turnover will happen. Whatever the reason actually is, I think this line has been figured out.

They can certainly play one style, a wide open, run & gun skating game. But the second the game switches to a stuck in the muck game where physicality reigns, neither player can seem to adjust to this change. That's why they seem to have so much success from November to December, but when the calendar and game changes in March and April, their game goes off a cliff.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

No one is a winner until he is. NHL history is littered with players who have struggled in the playoffs until figuring it out after several years.

I can't believe people are still trying this awful "not a winner!" line after watching Ryan O'Reilly.

This is what he said not long before he went and led the Blues to a cup:

"We're stuck in this mindset of just being OK with losing ... where it's just kind of get through, just being OK with just not making a mistake."

"I feel throughout the year I've lost the love of the game multiple times."

"Obviously, so privileged to be able to play this game professionally. It's the NHL. It's the best job in the world, but at times throughout the year I've felt I lost it."

"There's times where I found my game and just enjoy it and it's fun, but when you lose consistently like this for years, it's tough."

He said winning was what once drove him.

"I just hated to lose, and just with everything that's gone on, I just kind of had nowhere to go with it," O'Reilly said. "It was just kind of, 'Oh, it's all right. As long as I did some things well, it's OK.'

He openly admitted he had become ok with losing and didn't love the game anymore. And then he turned it around and won a cup.

"Not a winner"... yeah, neither was O'Reilly.

[yourbestfriend]

Keep him, but move him down to #2C. Is he a good player? Yes. Is he a #1C? No.
Regardless of the numbers he's put up the last few years, he can't generate offense by himself nor make his linemates better, and that was painfully obvious against Dallas. He's not the type of player you can put young guys with and he'll make them better, he needs to be setup.

Trade Johnny+ for a center who makes the players around him better (as was rumored in the other thread, Couturier would be perfect) and then sign Hall. All of a sudden our center depth is Couturier, Monahan and Backlund, flanked by Hall, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Dube, Bennett and Mangiapane.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Sean Monahan is not a third-line centre.

Don't think I'd ever call him that. I also don't deny that he is an above-average offensive player. I think he would be infinitely better on the wing. I've said this for two years now: You trade Monahan before you trade Gaudreau.

[IamNotKenKing]

On Inglewood Jack's note:

Sean Monahan was drafted in 2013.

List of the 1,288 players drafted after he was drafted, who have scored more regular season goals:

NO ONE

List of the 2,205 players drafted before him, who have scored more regular season goals.

2013 Draft:
NO ONE

2012 Draft (One Season Before Sean):
NO ONE

2011 Draft (Two Seasons Before Sean):
Nikita Kucherov and Gabriel Landeskog (4 more goals)

2010 Draft (Three Seasons Before Sean):
Tyler Seguin, Jeff Skinner, Taylor Hall, Vladimir Tarasenko

2009 Draft (Four Seasons Before Sean):
John Tavares, Matt Duchene, Evander Kane, Ryan O'Reilly (1 more goal)

2008 Draft (Five Seasons Before Sean):
Steven Stamkos, Jordan Eberle, Cam Atkinson (4 more goals)

2007 Draft (Six Seasons Before Sean):
Only 8 players

2006 (Seven Seasons Before Sean):
Only 10 players, 2 of which only have 2 more.

2005 (Eight Seasons Before Sean):
Only 7 players.

2004 (Nine Seasons Before Sean):
Only 7 players. 2 of which are within 1 and 2 goals.

So, of the last 3,493 players drafted in the NHL, 2,205 were drafted before Sean Monahan, and 1,288 after.

Of the 1,288 who were drafted after he was, none have scored more regular season goals in the NHL over their career. None.

Of the 2,205 who were drafted before Sean was drafted, 45 have scored more goals than him, and of those 45, only 13 were even drafted within 5 years of Sean, the others being the prior 6-9 years. And he is within 4 goals of 7 of those guys.

These stats are not only while Monahan was in the league, but all of these players' entire careers, several years of which was prior to Monahan even being drafted.

While he is not Ovechkin/Stamkos by any stretch, he is an elite goal scorer.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

On Inglewood Jack's note:

Sean Monahan was drafted in 2013.

List of the 1,288 players drafted after he was drafted, who have scored more regular season goals:

....
While he is not Ovechkin/Stamkos by any stretch, he is an elite goal scorer.

So what? Sure, he is an elite goal scorer, but the team has only been able to get out of the 1st round once in the 7 years he's been here. He's one of the better and higher paid players on our team, and yet he never really shown that he's got an extra gear, can put the team on his back and demonstrate how elite he is when it matters. It might be a bit unfair, but his goals and points totals don't really mean a whole lot when he fails to show up when it matters the most. In games 5 and 6, arguably the 2 most important games of his career, he was invisible.

[Inglewood Jack]

2013 draft players I’d definitely take over Monahan now: MacKinnon, Barkov, Jones, Horvat (sorry). Guys for which jury is still out that could end up in and around the same neighborhood of worth include Lindholm, Martha, Guentzel, Saros. So yes, I stand by the opinion that Monahan around 6th in a redraft is where I’d place him, even recognizing that his scoring stats are excellent.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

So what? Sure, he is an elite goal scorer, but the team has only been able to get out of the 1st round once in the 7 years he's been here. He's one of the better and higher paid players on our team, and yet he never really shown that he's got an extra gear, can put the team on his back and demonstrate how elite he is when it matters. It might be a bit unfair, but his goals and points totals don't really mean a whole lot when he fails to show up when it matters the most. In games 5 and 6, arguably the 2 most important games of his career, he was invisible.

The point is scoring goals in the NHL is really hard, as he is one of the best at it, so we should keep him unless and until a very clear upgrade is found.

[Jiri Hrdina]

1. Mackinnon
2. Barkov
3. Jones
4. Horvat
5. Monahan

I don't see anyone in that other group surpassing him. Mantha/Martha is a really flawed player. Even moreso than Monahan. The rest just aren't as good. Lindholm maybe surpasses him but doesn't have the consistent production.

Highlights he's still a really good player that if they choose to trade should net a good return.

[slcrocket]

This just isn't the year to trade Sean Monahan. It's clear that the Gaudreau/Monahan magic has been gone for a while now, but look at the PPG:

2014-15: .765
2015-16: .777
2016-17: .707
2017-18: .865
2018-19: 1.05
2019-20: .686

This year is the dropoff, but I don't believe that the guy just stopped caring. I think with a coaching change and proper slotting (acquire a 1C and put Monahan on the second line) we can see returns to what the guy used to be - a guy who just puts up points.

This is a team that needs a few years to fix - but many of the important pieces (Tkachuk, Monahan, Andersson, Valimaki, Brodie, Mangiapane, Dube, Lindholm, Hanifin, Bennett) are still young enough that they will be around. Move Gaudreau, don't protect Giordano in a year, and I don't think you need a complete blowup. 1C and goaltending are our biggest problems.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Sean Monahan is the best centre this team has had since probably the Nieuwendyk/Gilmour days.



Is he a top NHL centre? No, but you can still win with Monahan. You can build a deep enough team while having Monahan as your #1 centre. It is difficult to acquire centres better than him. Heck, it is difficult to draft centres better than him quite honestly. I think he is a #1 centre in the NHL, just not an 'elite' one, for whatever that means - and that's ok.


If you are on the side of retooling, then you MUST keep Monahan. If you can find a better centre through a retooling - something I am doubtful about - then great! Monahan drops down to the #2 centre, and then you have Backlund or Bennett that can be the third line centre and you are off to the races in trying to compete again.


If you are on the side of kicking off a rebuild - then you absolutely have to trade Monahan. You need to finish low enough. Monahan is proven to help a team gain the extra points in OT and in the SO during the regular season, plus he helps this team be that much better than low in the standings.


If you want a complete rebuild, you can't just change the wallpaper and expect things to be different. You need to rebuild this right through the drywall. Heck, even the studs. This team needs a top 3 pick if that is the avenue that you want to go to try and get a 'better core' that people are hoping for. Can it be done without going that low? Most certainly it can, and teams win the cup without totalling tanking. However, you might end up coming out of this rebuild 2.0 with another collection of really good players, but no 'franchise players'. There is no guarantee of anything. There is only an increased likelihood of getting those types of players. They year that they do hit rock bottom, you might find yourself with a Nail Yakupov/Ryan Murray year, or a Ryan Nugent Hopkins, or an Ekblad/Reinhart year, etc.


Don't know about what you guys think, but I would rather keep Monahan and Gaudreau and try to add to that if that's the case - but there is no guarantee. I voted for rebuilding, but the way Monahan is being talked about is just not right IMO. He is better than some #1 overalls, and people think that getting a 7th overall pick is going to guarantee an upgrade, and that it would be a complete fleecing to trade Monahan for that 7th overall? Are you fricken kidding me?


Monahan is so devalued on these boards. Gaudreau too. I guess we will see what happens, but I can't help but think that unless things go really awesome, we will look back and think: "If only we could have kept Monahan and Gaudreau". Time will tell I guess. I am all for taking the risk of starting over, but I also think that there is a lot of risk of downgrading after everything is said and done.

[iheartmonahan]

itrademonahan

[Poe969]

"If only we could have kept Monahan and Gaudreau..." what, we would make it to the playoffs every second year or 2 out of every 3 years and probably never get out of the first round??

I like Monahan, I really do. The thing is, it's just not working out. I think they should trade him but only if: they're rebuilding (which I think they should) and/or they can get a really good return for him.