[PGT] Flames win Game 1 vs Dallas 3-2

[Robo]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Yeah, I haven't seen it that way at all.

They're not giving up ten bellers every odd shift. They're not making talbot stand on his head. They're actually doing pretty well defensively.

Maybe watch the game rather than keeping your eyes on the fancy stats sheet.

I disagree our first line has been the only line consistently hemmed in their own end they are extremely lucky not to have hurt the team yesterday

[Robo]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Once they start to key on the Lucic-Bennett-Dube line more, that will open things up for the first line a bit.

I'm not sure how much more it can open up for the first line, dallas had their 4th line matched against them most of the night didn't they?.... maybe not but it sure seemed like comeau was out everytime our first line was on the ice

[schteve_d]

I'm pretty much ok with whatever the team is doing if the results keep coming.

In this series we are only one game in and I believe that was a Dallas home game. I assume the next is as well. It will be interesting to see Ward with the last change in game three and see if he sticks to this.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Robo

I'm not sure how much more it can open up for the first line, dallas had their 4th line matched against them most of the night didn't they?.... maybe not but it sure seemed like comeau was out everytime our first line was on the ice

I see so many comments about the 1st line struggling against the Stars' "4th line".

You do realize that this isn't some 4th line made up of 3 Zac Rinaldos' right?

The Stars' "4th line" is a specially created checking line featuring 3 of their best skaters and veterans.

Stars' fan consider Faksa their best defensive centre and forward.

Cogliano is a great skater and has been a great two way player throughout his career. He may be old but he can still play.

Comeau for all the flack he takes on this board is still a great skater with size. He can rag the puck around in the offensive zone for shifts at a time. He just has no finish and zero offensive acumen.

This "4th line" is designed to shut down the opposition's best. They aren't just Dallas' 3 worst players.

Obviously Flames top line has to battle through and score some goals, but they have to be careful not to give one up too.

Nobody should be expecting the Flames top line to "feast" on the Stars' "4th line". It's much easier to check an opponent than to score.

[AC]

Yeah Faksa is a selke caliber shutdown centre. He finished 7th in voting a couple years ago and is considered really underrated still.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Bingo

https://twitter.com/user/status/1293554482035306498

So interesting ... why would Ward move away from sheltering the top line in the playoffs?

Monahan has had 4 of 5 games under 40% (the other just over 40) compared to the regular season at close to 60%.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Sounds like Ward really isn't burying the top line, but rather he has simply stopped sheltering them.


It may be an odd time to try this out considering it is the playoffs, but on the other hand it is a great time since that line is really not generating much, so by focusing on defence (and taking with them the opposing team's better shut-down players), they will be contributing.


Backlund's line contributes a lot more than what shows up on the stats sheet usually. They take the tough match-ups and zone starts in order for the top line to take the easier zone starts, so that scoring will be easier for them. I have said before that Gaudreau and Monahan both owe Backlund some money in making it possible for them to score as much as they do (not taking away their skill level, but having someone like Backlund on the team enables those players to have an easier time at scoring).


That line has been so hot and cold - why continue giving them the best opportunities to score? Make them appreciate the finer points of how to defend, and hopefully they will be better in the offensive zone. They have to battle for pucks more, learn how to strip pucks better, etc.


I can't help but look back at Monahan's 2nd season when injuries decimated the team, and Monahan had to be the 1st line centre. Monahan was so worried about playing the right way and against the best lines, that his offence completely dried up. He WAS playing defence really well, IMO. However, Hartley took him aside, told him that he does need to pay attention to defence, but that he also needs to produce. Hartley was intent on making him a solid 2-way centre. No other coach SEEMED (at least to me) to try and do that with him.


Also, I remember when Gaudreau first entered the league, that I used to make comments like "he is tenacious out there" and especially "he reminds me a lot of Datsyuk in how he comes back hard on the backcheck tracking his guy, and then stripping him of the puck". I haven't seen much of that Gaudreau under Gulutzan or Peters. I have started to see that Gaudreau lately under Ward.


I heavily criticized Ward in the month before the season was postponed. I thought some of his decisions were rather crazy (using Backlund on the wing is criminal - he is one of the league's best defensive centres). However, there is little (perhaps zero) to criticize Ward thus far since the Flames resumed. He is earning my trust.


Not sheltering the top line (I don't think he is using that line as a shutdown line) is fine with me. They NEED to learn to work harder for the puck, get used to working for the puck and whatever opportunities they get. It isn't hurting this team right now, and if it starts to, I am sure Ward will adjust. This is helping the entire team develop - now young guys like Bennett, Dube and Mangiapane who don't have all the confidence in the world can hopefully acquire some confidence, Backlund and Tkachuk can be rewarded a bit for all their hard work, and hopefully the 4th line with Ryan can find a bit of depth scoring 5on5 as well thanks to not also being buried.


I think it is a good decision that is paying off. I think the entire team will develop a bit this way as well. If the wheels start to fall off, it can be readjusted. For now, I think it is great that the top line has bought-in to playing 200ft hockey, and this team is winning. This will only make them better players, and if they want that offensive zone time, then they will have to earn it just like everyone else, and also keep earning it or Ward will just give it to whichever line is producing that night.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Good on Ward. Maybe he realizes that our top line may not be as good as other top lines, but our 2nd-4th lines are much deeper than the other team. With that in mind, if you're able to shut down the opposing team's top line, you have a great chance of scoring with your other lines.

I think this method has also allowed Monahan to be a better 2-way player during these playoffs.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I can't help but look back at Monahan's 2nd season when injuries decimated the team, and Monahan had to be the 1st line centre. Monahan was so worried about playing the right way and against the best lines, that his offence completely dried up. He WAS playing defence really well, IMO. However, Hartley took him aside, told him that he does need to pay attention to defence, but that he also needs to produce. Hartley was intent on making him a solid 2-way centre. No other coach SEEMED (at least to me) to try and do that with him.

I agree.

I remember there being a lot of discussion in the 14-15 season around how Monahan was becoming a great 200ft center. Even Darryl Sutter had made mention of Monahan's development.

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/741011

But then he didn't really evolve much past that, and became more of a sheltered offensive only center.

Honestly I've been a big fan of his game in this playoffs. Strong defensively, making smart little plays, helping carry the puck out of the zone in transition. I think the offense will come with him if he keeps committing to strong play in the defensive zone.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I agree.

I remember there being a lot of discussion in the 14-15 season around how Monahan was becoming a great 200ft center. Even Darryl Sutter had made mention of Monahan's development.

https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/741011

But then he didn't really evolve much past that, and became more of a sheltered offensive only center.

Honestly I've been a big fan of his game in this playoffs. Strong defensively, making smart little plays, helping carry the puck out of the zone in transition.

I think the offense will come with him if he keeps committing to this.

Re your last point, isn’t he leading the team in points in this playoff?

[Robbob]

Anyone know off hand which defensive pairing the Stars matched with our 1st line? Was it their top pairing?

[Azure]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Monahan had chances last night. It is funny that he led the team in points the last series, but no one really talked about him.

I do wish the top line had a little more jam to be honest. It's probably not the best time to be experimenting, but I would love to see what a Tkachuk-Monahan-Lindholm line could do more often.

Sounds more or less like the career of Sean Monahan.

Constantly flying under the radar while doing his thing.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Also, I remember when Gaudreau first entered the league, that I used to make comments like "he is tenacious out there" and especially "he reminds me a lot of Datsyuk in how he comes back hard on the backcheck tracking his guy, and then stripping him of the puck". I haven't seen much of that Gaudreau under Gulutzan or Peters. I have started to see that Gaudreau lately under Ward.

Yeah I remember that too. Gaudreau's skating, hands, and ability to read plays made him a really dangerous little puck thief, to a point that it would clearly shake some opposing players mentally with the way it would make them look foolish. He also created some prime scoring opportunities with those steals.

That said, I think a part of that was that Hartley let Gaudreau roam around the ice pretty free, which made it easier for Gaudreau to pick his spots and catch opponents by surprise. Of course the downsides of letting a player just do what he wants are numerous and fairly obvious, so I'm not saying that's what Ward should do now in this series.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

I thought I heard that Monahan has been lights out on the face-offs, but can't remember if that was in all situations or just PP. Maybe Ward wants to capitalize on that, and trusts them enough to generate offense once they gather possession.

[TheChief]

I will say this I hate Dallas like I hate Anaheim, they have lots in common too...


1. Big top line captain who is nasty (Benn/Getzlaf) - Check
2. Corey Perry - Check
3. Flame Killer - Cogliano Check
4. Guys you wanna punch - Radulov(Silverberg/Kesler) Check
5. Good/Young Puck moving d-men(Klingberg/Fowler) - Check
6. Big - Check
7. Goalie that has the Flames number (Bishop/Gibson/Anderson) - Check



The key to this series....score first and clear the front of the net. Dallas likes to score like the Ducks. Random $#$@ shots that get deflected 3-4 times towards the net and somehow go in. Flames have to really be prepared to stand up at the blue line and try to limit Dallas forecheck.



This series will go the distance and there will be many many ups and downs I feel


Does anyone else wish they picked the "bulls"? Life would be easy. Not as a flames fan.

[MrMike]

What was the word on Bishop? Just “unfit to play”?

[Superfraggle]

Originally Posted by MrMike

What was the word on Bishop? Just “unfit to play”?

I believe he was on the bench, so probably counts as fit to play. Maybe not fully recovered, though. They aren't likely to give any more information than that this time of year.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

I thought I heard that Monahan has been lights out on the face-offs, but can't remember if that was in all situations or just PP. Maybe Ward wants to capitalize on that, and trusts them enough to generate offense once they gather possession.

Its just a few games sample but Monahans is at a sparkling 58.3% over 5 games and in a much smaller 1 game sample Lucic is 62%! I think they've just discovered in practice that Lucic and his huge upper body strength is actually good at at it. Plus it has to un-nerve the other guy across from him wouldn't you think LOL?

After the draw roles go back to normal and Bennett ( 42%) goes back to center. Lindholms been 47% and backlund who is usually really good is a dismal "McDavid like" 37%.

All this stuff is on the Flames own stats website.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Bingo

https://twitter.com/user/status/1293554482035306498

So interesting ... why would Ward move away from sheltering the top line in the playoffs?

Monahan has had 4 of 5 games under 40% (the other just over 40) compared to the regular season at close to 60%.

As previously mentioned, he’s not burying them. They’re just no longer being sheltered. This is perfect example of how analytics make Kent tone deaf about hockey, or his throws on the blinders.

There are two general ways to score in hockey. Off of the rush or on the cycle (broken plays being a 3rd).

Ward coached and witnessed how & why Bergeron is a great center. Lindholm provides additional defensive acumen to help Monahan & Gaudreau.

You can’t get better at zone exits, driving play, & creating plays off of the rush by starting ice time in the offensive end.

At the very least he could have contextualized if not normalized their zone starts based on zone exits/denials.

But he didn’t.

He just took the easy route, and oversimplified the data to make himself look smart and/or make the coaching staff look like it doesn’t know what it’s doing.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Robo

I'm not sure how much more it can open up for the first line, dallas had their 4th line matched against them most of the night didn't they?.... maybe not but it sure seemed like comeau was out everytime our first line was on the ice

If the Dube line keeps roasting them, and the Tkachuk line starts lighting the lamp this series they’ll have to make line match adjustments to compensate. Not to mention last change in 3 & 4.