63 Canadians killed after civilian airliner shot down.

[Bigtime]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1215354885924847616

[TheIronMaiden]

NSFW that please, I don't like watching people get killed.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by peter12

If Iranian radar misidentified a civilian airliner taking off from one of their own airports, and then shot it down, what does this say about the purportedly excellent Iranian air defense network?

I'm no expert on anti-air warfare. But from my understanding on radar no matter how old that its really hard to mis-identify a civilian aircraft from a military aircaft. The transponder on the aircraft would be basically be shouting I'm a civilian aircraft on the radar operators screen.



If it was a shoulder launched, you still have to identify the aircraft visually.


Add to it that this plane was in a civilian air corridor that's usually identified by the countries anti-aircraft command.



Its pretty hard not to identify a civilian craft on a search scope or even visually.



I'm not saying this was an intentional shootdown, more of a confluence of incompetence and stupidity with whoever was responsible for the shootdown if it was a shootdown.


I mean lets look at military shooting down a civilian plane. I think there have been 7 incidences


KAL - 007 - Intentionally targeted.


Iran Air 644 - Mis-identified as a F-14 and shot down. This lead to advances in the IFF system that most planes have today



Itavia Flight 870 - Lots of theories on this, that the French shot it down, that it was mis-identified as Ghadaffi's plane and shot down. But it's theorized that it was intentionally targeted.


EI AI 402 - Intentionally targeted and shot down by Bulgaria.


Pacific Airways 1954 - Intentionally targeted by Chinese fighters, long before modern IFF, but its likely they had eyes on target


Libya Airlines 114 - Intentionally targetted by Israeli forces after it ignored warnings and warning shots to land


Siberia 1812 - Plane was shot down by the Ukrainian military after the S-200 that was fired during a missile ex missed the drone it was targeted and squired the airliner.


Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 - Shot down by a Russian Buk system. The investigation was hindered by The Russians as there were theories that the operators were Russians. But they intentionally targeted the aircraft and didn't it seems care about the Transponder signal or ignored it.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

https://twitter.com/user/status/1215354885924847616

Seems a tad random...

"I'm just going to go out for a smoke and video this exact spot in the otherwise black night sky"...

[Rando]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

NSFW that please, I don't like watching people get killed.

Don't press play?

[MRCboicgy]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1215359371238084608

[peter12]

Also Korean Airlines 007, misidentified by Soviet ground radars and shot down by an SU-15 in 1983.

Never mind. You got it.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by peter12

Also Korean Airlines 007, misidentified by Soviet ground radars and shot down by an SU-15 in 1983.

Never mind. You got it.

From the pilots statement.



Soviet pilot's recollection of shootdown

In a 1991 interview with Izvestia, Major Genadi Osipovich, pilot of the Su-15 interceptor that shot the 747 down, spoke about his recollections of the events leading up to the shootdown. Contrary to official Soviet statements at the time, he recalled telling ground controllers that there were "blinking lights".[40] He continued, saying that "I saw two rows of windows and knew that this was a Boeing. I knew this was a civilian plane. But for me this meant nothing. It is easy to turn a civilian type of plane into one for military use."[40] He furthermore did not provide a detailed description of the aircraft to the ground controllers: "I did not tell the ground that it was a Boeing-type plane; they did not ask me."[39][40][note 3]


K-8 missile (the type fired at KAL 007) mounted on the wing of a Sukhoi Su-15


Commenting on the moment that KAL 007 slowed as it ascended from flight level 330 to flight level 350, and then on his maneuvering for missile launch, Osipovich said:

They [KAL 007] quickly lowered their speed. They were flying at 400 km/h (249 mph). My speed was more than 400. I was simply unable to fly slower. In my opinion, the intruder's intentions were plain. If I did not want to go into a stall, I would be forced to overshoot them. That's exactly what happened. We had already flown over the island [Sakhalin]. It is narrow at that point, the target was about to get away... Then the ground [controller] gave the command: "Destroy the target...!" That was easy to say. But how? With shells? I had already expended 243 rounds. Ram it? I had always thought of that as poor taste. Ramming is the last resort. Just in case, I had already completed my turn and was coming down on top of him. Then, I had an idea. I dropped below him about two thousand metres (6,600 ft)... afterburners. Switched on the missiles and brought the nose up sharply. Success! I have a lock on.[41]

We shot down the plane legally... Later we began to lie about small details: the plane was supposedly flying without running lights or strobe light, that tracer bullets were fired, or that I had radio contact with them on the emergency frequency of 121.5 megahertz.[42]

[MillerTime GFG]

Originally Posted by you&me

Seems a tad random...

"I'm just going to go out for a smoke and video this exact spot"...

Came to say the same thing.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Send our subs over there!

Park our carrier(s) right in the middle of the strait of Hormuz.

Originally Posted by Leeman4Gilmour

Not a surprise it was shot down.

What is the desired Canadian Government response?

I don't expect a declaration of war or revenge. Demand for restitution for families? Is there a precedent?

Iran Air Flight, 155.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[burn_this_city]

Why would it be random when they were launching cruise missiles across their airspace hours earlier? Clearly the guy was filming the plane prior to it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

From the pilots statement.



Soviet pilot's recollection of shootdown

In a 1991 interview with Izvestia, Major Genadi Osipovich, pilot of the Su-15 interceptor that shot the 747 down, spoke about his recollections of the events leading up to the shootdown. Contrary to official Soviet statements at the time, he recalled telling ground controllers that there were "blinking lights".[40] He continued, saying that "I saw two rows of windows and knew that this was a Boeing. I knew this was a civilian plane. But for me this meant nothing. It is easy to turn a civilian type of plane into one for military use."[40] He furthermore did not provide a detailed description of the aircraft to the ground controllers: "I did not tell the ground that it was a Boeing-type plane; they did not ask me."[39][40][note 3]


K-8 missile (the type fired at KAL 007) mounted on the wing of a Sukhoi Su-15


Commenting on the moment that KAL 007 slowed as it ascended from flight level 330 to flight level 350, and then on his maneuvering for missile launch, Osipovich said:

They [KAL 007] quickly lowered their speed. They were flying at 400 km/h (249 mph). My speed was more than 400. I was simply unable to fly slower. In my opinion, the intruder's intentions were plain. If I did not want to go into a stall, I would be forced to overshoot them. That's exactly what happened. We had already flown over the island [Sakhalin]. It is narrow at that point, the target was about to get away... Then the ground [controller] gave the command: "Destroy the target...!" That was easy to say. But how? With shells? I had already expended 243 rounds. Ram it? I had always thought of that as poor taste. Ramming is the last resort. Just in case, I had already completed my turn and was coming down on top of him. Then, I had an idea. I dropped below him about two thousand metres (6,600 ft)... afterburners. Switched on the missiles and brought the nose up sharply. Success! I have a lock on.[41]

We shot down the plane legally... Later we began to lie about small details: the plane was supposedly flying without running lights or strobe light, that tracer bullets were fired, or that I had radio contact with them on the emergency frequency of 121.5 megahertz.[42]

Bastards.

[Patek23]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

NSFW that please, I don't like watching people get killed.

You literally just have to not press play..... it’s a blank screen at first.

[nik-]

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...-doomed-flight

They were supposed to be flying together. Instead, Ottawa resident Mohsen Ahmadipour said goodbye to his wife Roja Azadian at the airport in Tehran on Tuesday, telling her he would join her as soon as he could get on another flight.

Jesus christ.

[MillerTime GFG]

I'm no Trudeau supporter, but man...can you imagine the weight on his shoulders right now? How do you deal with this as the leader of a non-military power country such as Canada? How do you represent these families appropriately?

From a human standpoint, I cannot imagine the stress he must be under. I do not envy him. I'm so curious to see how he/we proceed here.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Why would it be random when they were launching cruise missiles across their airspace hours earlier? Clearly the guy was filming the plane prior to it.

Sure, I guess that makes sense...

I thought the airstrikes had been over for hours at the point of the plane being shot down and the nearest target in Iraq (Erbil) is ~1,000 km away...

I'm not implying anything else, other than it being curiously random...

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by you&me

Sure, I guess that makes sense...

I thought the airstrikes had been over for hours at the point of the plane being shot down and the nearest target in Iraq (Erbil) is ~1,000 km away...

I'm not implying anything else, other than it being curiously random...

I'm sure there's a ton more footage out there. City of 8 million people, everyone with phones, security cameras ect. Probably expecting an American attack so anything in the sky would be worth watching. It will probably leak out over the next few days and weeks.

[Red_Baron]

The sooner Iran admits that is was a misslie, the better.

Best case that comes out of this is that both the US and Iran step back and return to finding a diplomatic long-term solution to their conflict.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG

I'm no Trudeau supporter, but man...can you imagine the weight on his shoulders right now? How do you deal with this as the leader of a non-military power country such as Canada? How do you represent these families appropriately?

From a human standpoint, I cannot imagine the stress he must be under. I do not envy him. I'm so curious to see how he/we proceed here.

Not to argue but this is what he signed up for and he's going to have to show leadership.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Not to argue but this is what he signed up for and he's going to have to show leadership.

The only kind of leadership any Canadian PM could actually show in this scenario is the one thing Trudeau is good at: offering thoughts and prayers. It's not an enviable position, but there just is not much anyone could reasonably do in his place.

We're just an incidental casualty of Trump's need to distract from his impeachment and Iran's desire to sabre-rattle.