I was reading the live chat and had to turn it off after a while. Even with this story making national headlines in our sport, the racists and bigots were out in full force.
Make no mistake, Canada is a swell country and #1 on my list. But racism is alive and well here.
I’d like to think there is something in between, although not referring to the specific question that was asked.
Forget what the media wants, how about what fans and stakeholders of the organization want? Personally I want an organization that has zero tolerance for the #### that Peters did.
I would be surprised if this is not something that everyone wants. Saying it is one thing, but putting it into action is another.
This was an unprecedented situation faced by a NHL club, and I was happy that the Flames responded immediately, and decisively inasmuch as they are able to within legal constraints. It sure looks to me that the Flames have enacted a policy of zero tolerance.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woob
"...harem warfare? like all your wives dressup and go paintballing?"
He was absolutely right not to address hypotheticals.
If he had, he goes down the path I warned of days ago where reporters start asking him "how much racism is too much racism for the Flames?" type questions.
I’d like to think there is something in between, although not referring to the specific question that was asked.
Forget what the media wants, how about what fans and stakeholders of the organization want? Personally I want an organization that has zero tolerance for the #### that Peters did.
You got it though.
Its been what? 4 days? 5 if you include today. From the moment they had any knowledge of what happened to the moment the situation is resolved despite the sensitivity of the situation and all of the various intricacies.
Peters is gone.
Okay, so they didnt fire him on Day 1, but that would have been hasty and irresponsible and had legal ramifications.
Overall I cant really see any complaints against Treliving, the organization or the team.
They got blindsided, they investigated and a decision was made.
Sure, its ends up as him resigning, but thats just the technicalities of the situation. He resigned likely because it was the best option for all parties.
They could have fired him and looked tough but the end result would still have been Peters being gone but probably a long, drawn out and bloody legal fight.
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I view it as very different things.
It is easier for an organization to move on from someone with these behaviors. Trudeau was voted back in.
I don't like it, but I don't know how you change that.
So i don't totally grasp the comparisons.
Both things occurred on different timelines too. So I agree you can't compare Bill Peter's racist comments and Trudeau in blackface truly.
However if you wanted to look at them in a similar light, the photos of Trudeau coming out 1 month before the election would be like the Flames having the lead in the 3rd round of the playoffs and this Bill Peters situation coming out.
At that point does the liberal party/Flames organization abandon it's front man when they are so close to victory?
Awkward situation for the Flames and Bill Peters. What Peters said 10 years ago was definitely wrong, but appears to be one time thing. We would probably have heard something if there was more cases of it. I don't necessarily believe he tried to ruin Aliu's career. Heard nothing that backs up the accusation. According to Brindamour, his cases of physical abuse in the Hurricanes organization stopped after they had an internal meeting.
Treliving has said there wasn't anything like this occuring while he's been with the Flames. It appears that Peters has already improved on how he coaches the players. Probably still a hard ass but nothing necessarily wrong with that.
I totally understand the Flames having to get rid of him, because of the public outrage, but it wasn't really fair for them to deal with this issue. If Peters was fired it should have occurred in his previous organizations. Which is why Peters will most likely get the majority of his contract paid out to him.
I suspect Peters will find his way back in the NHL in a coaching capacity sometime in the future once this blows over. While what he did was wrong I don't think it was so outrageous that it would get him banned from coaching again in the NHL again.
It will be interesting to see what happens to Laviolette and Crawford now. Do these cases conveniently get ignored or are they both also removed from their positions?
My entire point is why there are such double standards in this stuff. 99% of the population who heard the Peters story fully expected him to be out of a job at the end of it...for a variety of reasons it was the right thing to do and only logical conclusion.
Why should we not expect that from the party leading the country too? Why are they very much allowed to get away with condoning racist pasts by their collective inaction? Why are private companies held to a higher standard than our elected representatives who set policy for all this kind of stuff?
In short...why is some past racism forgiven and other is not?
Its part of the discussion moving forward that has to be addressed IMO, if there is to be any real headway made in the whole topic.
Just my thoughts on it is all.
As has been said repeatedly, it's a matter of context and each incident needs to be addressed individually. That isn't to say that each incident should exist entirely in a bubble as it all ripples outwards, but we do still need to consider a narrow scope specific to the situation if we really want to answer your bolded question.
For instance, the difference between Trudeau's blackface and Peters' comments are intent. I view Trudeau's actions as ignorant, indirect, and offensive. I view Peters' comments as hateful, direct, and offensive.
Trudeau has a documented track record of ownership, apology, and reconciliation through policy, legislation, and commentary. I'm not going to speak definitively on the Peters situation in Rockford, but I tend to lend more credence to a player's story that has been corroborated by 2 independent sources in the room at the time that Peters was unrepentant. The stories of abuse carrying over to further employment in Carolina doesn't help to change my mind, nor does the contrived generalized apology to Treliving and the Flames either.
Both are admonishable, and both are forgivable. While I can do the former in my own capacity, I only have limited control over the latter and only when it comes to Trudeau (because I can vote on his position). Plus it's not really my place to accept either apology. It's entirely the Flames organization's prerogative with respect to Bill Peters.
I hope that lends you a little insight into why I don't believe this is a double standard situation and why I can understand that the Liberals decided to keep Trudeau and the Flames decided to remove Peters.
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My entire point is why there are such double standards in this stuff. 99% of the population who heard the Peters story fully expected him to be out of a job at the end of it...for a variety of reasons it was the right thing to do and only logical conclusion.
Why should we not expect that from the party leading the country too? Why are they very much allowed to get away with condoning racist pasts by their collective inaction? Why are private companies held to a higher standard than our elected representatives who set policy for all this kind of stuff?
In short...why is some past racism forgiven and other is not?
Its part of the discussion moving forward that has to be addressed IMO, if there is to be any real headway made in the whole topic.
Just my thoughts on it is all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by transplant99
I mean....is dressing up as actual black person now crossing the line?
Who is hurt by this? How are they hurt by this? Is this just some faux outrage by the Bashir dude?
I dont think you will find many black people that would find that makeup on the teacher offensive to any degree.
Interesting how you went from a crusader of "blackface isn't racist" to "Trudeau shouldn't be leader for his racist blackface." Surely there's no bias there.
You of all people must admit that yelling the N word in frustration at a black player and wearing black makeup, especially 20 years ago, are not on the same level of racism.
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Meh. CP is sidetracks. It's unavoidable. No one should casting stones at that.
Of course we have just started a side issue about side issues.
Some posts (not many but some) are clear bait intended to derail a thread with a silly red herring argument. I shouldn't take that bait but sometimes I just can't help myself. It doesn't contribute to the discussion.
I'm working on it.
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It has everything to do with this thread we're talking about racist actions and consequences.
Then don't respond or post.
Mods have already edited posts and asked posters not to change the subject and yet posters stubbornly have to bring their political bs still into it. It has NOTHING to do with Bill Peters or the Flames so just stop.
Treliving is supposed to be on with Pat and Pinder at 4:30 this afternoon.
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Really? Can you play rap music with swear words at work?
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Well if I play music with swear words at work, my boss would tell me to please turn that off and do not play that out loud again. Peters should have told Aliu to turn the music off without using offensive and hurtful words.
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Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen
Interesting how you went from a crusader of "blackface isn't racist" to "Trudeau shouldn't be leader for his racist blackface." Surely there's no bias there.
You of all people must admit that yelling the N word in frustration at a black player and wearing black makeup, especially 20 years ago, are not on the same level of racism.
Crusader? LMAO...ok then. Im the one that was trying to get context into the discussion, but was curb stomped for doing so because....
"there is NO LEVEL of racism that is OK or to be tolerated"
OK..then lets go with that shall we?
No, not now cause it means the PM would have to step down in the middle of an election.
So now we are at "selective" racism...which is actually code for "its really bad when I want it to be, but not so much when i dont want it to be".
Both guys should have lost their positions. We all know why in reality that did not happen.
Im bowing out because those that say they want real discussion to come from all the stuff the last month or so...really dont mean it.
Last edited by transplant99; 11-29-2019 at 03:04 PM.
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