[News] Bill Peters resigns as head coach. No longer part of Flames org. Ward interim HC

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by zamler

You don't think the leader of a country should be held to a higher standard than a sports coach?

Sure, but people voted in the "least evil" option, according to their criteria. If we eliminated all politicians because of an issue, we'd have none to govern. I doubt I'd have voted Liberal *or* Conservative, but if those were my only two choices I'd have gone L as Scheer had more red flags in my opinion.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by zamler

It has everything to do with this thread we're talking about racist actions and consequences.

Are there only two categories of action - racist and non-racist? And once we've sorted all of the infinite possibilities of human action into one of those two piles, racist and non-racist, we simply apply the racist action = termination formula? Is that your proposal? Does that satisfy your sense of justice?

Oh, and in order to implement this new system of justice, should we empower the Governor General to be able to terminate the Prime Minister's "employment"? Or perhaps we just shouldn't count the votes of all of the Canadians who vote for a Prime Minister's whose actions have been sorted into the "racist" pile (by zamler I guess?). Other proposals?

SIGH.

[Hot_Flatus]

I gained a lot of respect for Treliving in the way he handled this entire situation. You could tell he was pretty shaken up during parts of this announcement. This goes far beyond the expectation of your GM and would have been absolutely brutal. Well done Tre.

[devo22]

I'm glad this is over. This must have been a difficult few days for everybody involved and I'm sure there's a lot of relief within the organization today that they can move forward. Was surprised to see that Peters resigned, looks like they struck a deal.

Thought Treliving did well in the press conference. Some extraordinarily stupid questions by the media, but what else is new. You could see this was a difficult process for Tre, I'm sure he felt even more disappointed than most of us and probably "betrayed" by Peters, if that makes sense.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes he should but it really has nothing to do with this thread. Let's not turn this into a political debate.

IMO it isnt a political debate though...its all about what society in general will find acceptable and from who. Who gets a second chance and who doesn't?

If you voted for Trudeau you should have been just fine if Peters kept his job here. Which I believe most people,upon reflection, would not agree with.

So the question becomes why is this more heinous and more career damaging/ending than those photos?

It's all kind of fascinating to watch and part of the good that come out of all this. All week we have heard how this is a tough talk to have but it must be had. Well JT and his actions yet getting re-elected to run the whole country are part of that discussion. Though I suspect many of the SJW types dont really want to "discuss" anything but would much prefer to preach and belittle anyone who asks questions and/or disagrees with them.

[Ashasx]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1200474500350930944

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Are there only two categories of action - racist and non-racist? And once we've sorted all of the infinite possibilities of human action into one of those two piles, racist and non-racist, we simply apply the racist action = termination formula? Is that your proposal? Does that satisfy your sense of justice?

Oh, and in order to implement this new system of justice, should we empower the Governor General to be able to terminate the Prime Minister's "employment"? Or perhaps we just shouldn't count the votes of all of the Canadians who vote for a Prime Minister's whose actions have been sorted into the "racist" pile (by zamler I guess?). Other proposals?

SIGH.

Wow, you're really lost in your own head.

I'm stating very clearly I strongly dislike double standards. I think we can ALL agree what Trudeau did and what Peters did are both highly racist. Since we can't read minds and ever know true intent logically we judge the person on their actions.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Are there only two categories of action - racist and non-racist? And once we've sorted all of the infinite possibilities of human action into one of those two piles, racist and non-racist, we simply apply the racist action = termination formula? Is that your proposal? Does that satisfy your sense of justice?

Oh, and in order to implement this new system of justice, should we empower the Governor General to be able to terminate the Prime Minister's "employment"? Or perhaps we just shouldn't count the votes of all of the Canadians who vote for a Prime Minister's whose actions have been sorted into the "racist" pile (by zamler I guess?). Other proposals?

SIGH.

There should be only 2 categories
Racist
Anti racist
Non racist isn't enough

(this is something from a quote I recall)

[BigFlameDog]

Whoa...Pinder might want to look under his bed tonight. What a dumb question.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by transplant99

If you voted for Trudeau you should have been just fine if Peters kept his job here.

Perhaps you could walk us through how you reached this particular conclusion?

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Actually, small disagreement. He specifically mentioned talking to bills previous employers which I thought was surprising. I believe he also specifically mentioned the canes but might have misheard or am mistaken.

One thing he didn't mention? Talking to any players, which looks to be the obvious glaring oversight and I think now probably a source of professional embarrassment. Maybe it was an accidental immission, but if I was looking to provide a bit of absolution for a problematic hire, that would be very high on my list of things to say.

Maybe he didn't talk to any players. Maybe he did and they said Peter's was fine. Maybe he did and the players said he wasn't fine and Treliving didn't care. Everyone hates a former boss. But not caring what the players think is a huge part of the culture needing change.

You'll be damn sure he cares now.

THE problem didn't happen in the flames organization, but a player agent literally accused Peters, in public of 'trying to run' his client 'out of town', and a prominent free agent signing was traded his first year into a 5 year deal after a public dispute with the same coach. I don't think we can credibly speculate there were no issues with Peters in the flames locker room in terms of bullying or abuse.


This is the culture change discussion in it's basic essence, and because I've never played pro or semi pro, it's difficult for me to weigh in definitively.

Commodore was on today (or maybe yesterday) indicating that he never, ever was asked about a coach in terms of reference checks. I don't know if he is the exception, but my guess is that talking to players is not something that is normally done, except perhaps those that played under that coach who are already in the Flames organization. I just don't see any plausible scenario that this issue would come to light, even if many players were interviewed. It might have taken an interview with Aliu himself before this could have been known.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by BigFlameDog

Whoa...Pinder might want to look under his bed tonight. What a dumb question.

Brad was staring daggers at Pinder..wow

[CaptainCrunch]

Nobody is going to reach out to every single player or hundreds of players as part of their due dilligence.


They're probably going to reach out to players that they know, or ask the other reference guys ie GM's Assistant coaches and coaches for a list of players that they should talk to.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Commodore was on today (or maybe yesterday) indicating that he never, ever was asked about a coach in terms of reference checks. I don't know if he is the exception, but my guess is that talking to players is not something that is normally done, except perhaps those that played under that coach who are already in the Flames organization. I just don't see any plausible scenario that this issue would come to light, even if many players were interviewed. It might have taken an interview with Aliu himself before this could have been known.

Why the heck would management ask players about their opinion on their boss? The amount of people who think this would be standard protocol is frustrating... in what job would that be normal? In what profession would you get a reliable response from a subordinate about a superior? It’s ridiculous.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Perhaps you could walk us through how you reached this particular conclusion?

Is it not the narrative that if you were a racist in the past, you have to answer for it with your job now? Is that not why Bill Peters is unemployed today? JT was racist in his past with all kinds of photographic proof, but he kept his job as leader of his organization.

I'm not defending either one of these guys but the double-standard is massive, and as such has a large role in this "discussion" that everyone has been claiming to want.

[Strange Brew]

I’m fine with Treliving not having much to say about their hiring process. They conducted a review of the allegations which was the pressing issue. They could absolutely plan to look at their hiring process going forward.

Now I didn’t listen to the whole thing but what I can’t believe is that not one reporter asked if the Flames asked for Peters to resign? Did they ask Treliving if his review found the allegations to be accurate? Did they make an attempt to determine whether any similar incidents occurred while Peters was under their employment? Do they have policies and procedures in place that would allow for such issues to be communicated upwards so that he is confident in knowing whether anything took place?

Of course he doesn’t have to answer any of these but these are all rather pertinent IMO.

But asking whether Peters was asked to resign is just basic. Let Treliving decline to answer if he chooses as he was no doubt prepped for that question.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by transplant99

He already knew and worked with Peters from Team Canada. He also stated he did do lots of back ground checks before hiring him and talking to past employers and players. The fact that this incident never came up is not on BT in any way shape or form.

Im not sure how this is a "PR disaster" for the team either. Does the general public find itself looking at the Flames and thinking " that's a racist organization" so I cannot support them? Or are they looking at Bill Peters and thinking that maybe its all his fault he finds himself in this situation and has nothing to do with the Flames, particularly when the whole thing happened when Peters didnt even work for them?

The Blackhawks are who should be getting their feet held to the fire here if anyone should, at least for the allegations from aliu. Ron Francis is in a world of trouble right now as well after the statement from Brindamour yesterday is my guess.

But Brad Treliving? Nope...he has done nothing but handle this the exact way it had to be from the get go. No radio silence, no hiding from the media, he just did things in a calm and timely manner that culminated with what we just saw from the Dome. Kudos to him for all of it.

Well, as I said, the Flames and Treliving have handled the fallout very well, but this is definitely not the sort of news the team wants to have about them. They pulled it out of the fire.

Treliving is the guy that hired him. Whatever reasonable arguments are to be made about his actual level of responsibility, he will always be associated with bringing Peters into the organization and that association is increased by the fact that Peters was clearly his targeted guy. That's more than sufficient for seeds of doubt.

People hold it against Treliving that he signed Neal, but you expect nobody will view him as having a role in this outcome? Numerous questions were already raised about due diligence and process by media in the press conference. It's the nature of the GM's job to live or die by the outcomes of decisions, and it often is not fair. Highly visible, highly public roles are often that way. He is in the entertainment business after all.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Why the heck would management ask players about their opinion on their boss? The amount of people who think this would be standard protocol is frustrating... in what job would that be normal? In what profession would you get a reliable response from a subordinate about a superior? It’s ridiculous.

I agree entirely. Just responding to Flash.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Why the heck would management ask players about their opinion on their boss? The amount of people who think this would be standard protocol is frustrating... in what job would that be normal? In what profession would you get a reliable response from a subordinate about a superior? It’s ridiculous.

There are entire websites dedicated to exactly this are there not? And how else are you going to find out about a boss and the company when it comes to internal matters if you don't ask the employees?

[Boreal]

No member of the media asked about the discrepancies between Aliu & Peters recollection of the events and what roll that played.

Treliving wouldn’t have given much of an answer anyways, but that’s a pretty obvious question that none of media wizards could conjure up.