Bill Peters' open apology to Treliving. UPD: Aliu responds

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

The kids use the word "boomer" to denote an old-fashioned mindset. It is not ageist. In this context, a millennial can be a boomer.

Also, boomer has never been a slur. I'm pretty sure baby boomers came up with this term themselves.

One more slight distinction: "Baby boomers" are collectively the most privileged cohort in the history of human civilization instead of, you know, a historic underclass, a remnant of generations of slavery, which continues to face significant disadvantage to this day.

Yikes.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

It really wasn’t though. I hung around groups which you would probably describe as that (word play on a racist slang word... nice. Even at 16 we thought twisting that word was disgusting). Never heard anyone drop an N bomb.

I'm gonna level with you.

You do understand other people have had different experiences? You do understand that your anecdotes aren't a basis for anything other than your own experiences? Just because you didn't experience something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I really don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with these posts.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by VilleN

My thoughts on all of this are:
- it does matter that it was a decade ago. It is one racist incident a decade ago. It isn’t a pattern. I think Peters has a reason to point that out in the letter.
- he should’ve apologized to Aliu in the letter. However, he claims he did immediately apologize after the incident. If that is true, and Aliu is leaving that out of the story, I can see why Peters isn’t apologizing in this letter ( although he should have ).
- Peters should be fired. This has gotten too big now, that even if he addressed it with the team and the fans appropriately, the damage is done and he needs to go.

Note he doesn’t say that Akim was in the room when he apologized. He says he was confronted for the language and immediately went and apologized to the team. This is interesting language to use. No mention of Akim was present and not mention if being confronted on it was his speaking with Akim or other players. This letter is not a detailed account of what happened and doesn’t conflict with Akim stating he never apologized to him.

So based on current information both statements could be truthful.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by cannon7

I'm gonna level with you.

You do understand other people have had different experiences? You do understand that your anecdotes aren't a basis for anything other than your own experiences? Just because you didn't experience something doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I really don't understand what you're trying to accomplish with these posts.

I was responding to an anecdote.

[Aleks]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

It can go the other way. It’s always product of environment and maybe lack of experience and exposure to learn that certain terms are no longer ok. Or something is dormant for a long time that it sneaks up in you. The older the wiser but also means their formative years were longer ago. My dad is 67, born in 52 in a small prairie town. I’ve know him for 40 years and I would never ever consider him or anything he has done or said as racist in my lifetime. Up until last year during a visit when discussing the recent population increase in his prairie city he used a derogatory term to represent the high percentage of new immigrants as Japanese. I’d never heard him used that term ever and I doubt in 50 years he himself ever had or even had a reason to speak to anyone anywhere about something that would have put him in a position to use that term.
Bill is from Three Hills. A rural part of Alberta, tat also wasn’t probably at the forefront of the end of racism. I don’t know, maybe they were. I’ve never been but I suspect based on other comments over the last days that there is racism still strongly alive in parts of Canada.

I'm from Three Hills, I've seen this brought up a few times in this whole thing, and it irks me. I have no ties to the town anymore, but it's not some backwoods redneck racists hot cell. Sure there's farmers, sure there's a large religious sect, but that narrative has to stop

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by gargamel

Especially if it was due to frustration (and Peters admits it was). If he was quoting a song or saying it ironically, then maybe he gets forgiven with a sincere apology. Saying the N word in frustration to a black man is inexcusable, with or without an apology.

I think if this was how it took place, and a sincere apology was made, we wouldn't be here today.
I'm 100% about forgiving mistakes from the past and giving second chances, understanding that people can make mistakes that need not haunt them the rest of their life, so long as confidence is very high that the behavior was some sort of a one off and not reflective of their true character.

I do not believe this is one of those circumstances.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Makarov

One more slight distinction: "Baby boomers" are collectively the most privileged cohort in the history of human civilization instead of, you know, a historic underclass, a remnant of generations of slavery, which continues to face significant disadvantage to this day.

Yikes.

It is unbelievable how people don't see this. The N word has the weight of unbelievable historic and current oppression behind it, and is used on a historically disenfranchised group. It is and has been used to keep that group in their place. There is a reason that white people can't say that word and it has everything to do with power and oppression.

[expatflame]

Wow, Peters should be fired for an incident that happened 10 years ago in a different workplace? Yet the President of the US can still maintain his job for a pattern of mysognistic, racist and xenophobic statements uttered almost daily.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I think if this was how it took place, and a sincere apology was made, we wouldn't be here today.
I'm 100% about forgiving mistakes from the past and giving second chances, understanding that people can make mistakes that need not haunt them the rest of their life, so long as confidence is very high that the behavior was some sort of a one off and not reflective of their true character.

I do not believe this is one of those circumstances.

I don't see "frustration" as a mitigating circumstance at all. I've been plenty frustrated with my wife (who is a black woman from Barbados). Never once in our ten year relationship did I even consider/come close to uttering that word for any reason. I also note that few people consider it to be a mitigating circumstance if Joe Blow only hits his children when he is frustrated.

All that said, I agree with the rest of your post. And I'm perhaps less cynical than you with respect to Peters. I don't think this needs to necessarily haunt him for the rest of his life. He can learn from this, atone for it, grow from it, and move on. It will take a lot of time, a lot of work, and probably a lot of pain, but he can definitely do it. He just can't be the coach of an NHL team while he goes through that process.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by expatflame

Wow, Peters should be fired for an incident that happened 10 years ago in a different workplace? Yet the President of the US can still maintain his job for a pattern of mysognistic, racist and xenophobic statements uttered almost daily.

There may be some small differences between the respective HR processes (hiring, termination, etc) for NHL coaches and the President of the United States.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by expatflame

Wow, Peters should be fired for an incident that happened 10 years ago in a different workplace? Yet the President of the US can still maintain his job for a pattern of mysognistic, racist and xenophobic statements uttered almost daily.

Turn off CNN man...

This is in no way shape or form even somewhat similar to anything trump does.

your take is as bad as people saying "Oh look at the liberals giving Trudeau a pass for blackface but trying to get peters fired"

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

The kids use the word "boomer" to denote an old-fashioned mindset. It is not ageist. In this context, a millennial can be a boomer

This is obvious bull####. Of course OK Boomer is ageist - it's a rhetorical tool used to instantly discount a person's opinion based on when they wre born, and cast that person as someone worth mocking and not taking seriously. It's mildly obnoxious. It is generally used deliberately to be mildly obnoxious, in order to provoke a reaction and then laugh at the person for getting angry. Trolling, basically. And "mildly obnoxious" is very obviously not comparable to using the N word.

It might have been Trevor Noah who said this recently, but it sums it up: if you're debating the relative badness of two words, and you won't even say one of them, that's the worse word.

[devo22]

aaah, whataboutism. Just what this thread needed.

[Makarov]

The Flames must feel tremendous pressure to conclude their investigation and resolve this matter one way or another (well, I think there really is only one way to resolve it at this point) before their home game on Saturday night.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

That 'a decade ago' line really bugs the hell out of me. He really should have left that out, not helping his cause at all.

His cause at this point isn't the same cause you think it is.

Lines like that aren't about trying to save his job. It's about closing avenues for the team to fire him with cause. In other words, he (more accurately, his lawyer), is trying to underscore the fact that this incident happened long before his employment with team. It's meant to strengthen his position with respect to any negotiated settlement.

[Huntingwhale]

The apology letter was lame. But at the same time, apology letters written by lawyers are ALWAYS toned to ensure monetary compensation isn't threatened to their client. It's never been about making amends to Aliu. Peters is understandly getting crapped on for it. However at the same time he is due millions of dollars and I certainly don't blame anyone for fighting for that kind of money, even if it puts them in a bad light. Like it or not, Peters has his family's future to think about as it seems likely he will never receive a coaching job/salary at that level again. I don't blame him for trying to get every penny from that contract. I've know many people who have done worse and fought for much less.

CP and Calgary in general obviously sees him as a slime ball for writing a lame letter and not giving up the money like a good boy. But a couple years from now when this has all died down, he'll have made the right choice financially to fight for that money instead of giving it up simply to appease the internet.

Will be interesting to see though if what he says in the letter about apologizing is true, as the players apparently say otherwise. What a crazy drama show this has become.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by expatflame

Wow, Peters should be fired for an incident that happened 10 years ago in a different workplace? Yet the President of the US can still maintain his job for a pattern of mysognistic, racist and xenophobic statements uttered almost daily.

I'm so tired of the "Ya but the President did this" and "Ya but the Prime Minister did that".

Didn't your mom ever teach you that two wrongs don't make a right?

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by expatflame

Wow, Peters should be fired for an incident that happened 10 years ago in a different workplace? Yet the President of the US can still maintain his job for a pattern of mysognistic, racist and xenophobic statements uttered almost daily.

Aren't they trying to fire the POTUS right now? It's just a much more difficult process. NHL coaches get fired all the time for lots of different reasons. Removing the president takes years of litigation. Also, note that the president is the boss and he has fired several people underneath him.


It was much more difficult for the NBA to get rid of Donald Sterling, even though his racist actions were significantly worse than Peters' over a longer period of time, because he was the owner of the Clippers, not an employee. Basically, they had to find him doing something that was actually illegal.

[Crown Royal]

I think calling someone a racist based on 1 incident is unfair, especially one when it was used to describe a type of music and not calling a person that. Being racially insensitive might be completely stupid, but it doesn't necessarily make you a racist.

A racist is someone who believes they are superior due to their race and/or discriminates or hates based on race.

The N-word is a terrible word and shouldn't be used, and I fully believe Peters should be out on his ass. But, I do think people are going to far in calling him a racist.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

The kids use the word "boomer" to denote an old-fashioned mindset. It is not ageist. In this context, a millennial can be a boomer.

Also, boomer has never been a slur. I'm pretty sure baby boomers came up with this term themselves.

The way boomer is used in "OK boomer" is absolutely a slur. A rather cringy one that reflects far more on the person using it than it does the target, but a slur none the less.

Also, I'd like to congratulate psynet for once again derailing a thread with his habitual drive by troll post.