GT: Canadian Federal Election 2019

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

As long as the pipeline gets built, we'll be fine. Singh may singlehandedly ruin this though. It's up to Trudeau to convince him. Or bribe him?

It’s up to Scheer to promise him 2 years of quiet support.

[Manhattanboy]

NDP and Greens for all the press they receive had a disastrous night.

Both need new leaders to remain at all credible.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

But Singh could screw Trudeau by voting against the budget, which the Conservatives also would oppose. Trudeau has a fine line to walk. But then, so does Singh, who turned increasing polling support into fewer seats. He might just have to suck it up on TMX.

That said, a corrupt PM buttressed by an insane party. Close to worst case scenario.

Singh can't run another election any time soon. He has no money.

There's a lot of posters using the word "corrupt". If that is in reference to SNC, I don't think it's the right word, only because that connotes personal gain (eg. SNC paid Trudeau kickbacks or something). It's clear he went across ethics boundaries by trying to convince a Minister to do something, but that didn't seem to be motivated by greed. It's either "saving Quebec jobs" if you're charitable or "winning Quebec votes" if you're not. Would we be complaining as much if he was phoning the Minister of Environment to try and convince him to impose a lesser penalty or remediation on a big oil sands project rather than shutting it down?

Or maybe I'm wrong and people are referring to something else?

[Fuzz]

Under the Conservative Party constitution, if the party fails to form government — and if the leader has not yet formally signalled an intention to resign — then delegates can vote at the next party convention to hold a leadership race. If more more than 50 per cent of the votes cast at the convention favour such an option, that would trigger a leadership race.
Of course, Scheer might resign before that leadership review vote is even necessary.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/con...329809?cmp=rss


I guess we will see how in-touch the delegates are with the rest of Canada.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Singh can't run another election any time soon. He has no money.

There's a lot of posters using the word "corrupt". If that is in reference to SNC, I don't think it's the right word, only because that connotes personal gain (eg. SNC paid Trudeau kickbacks or something). It's clear he went across ethics boundaries by trying to convince a Minister to do something, but that didn't seem to be motivated by greed. It's either "saving Quebec jobs" if you're charitable or "winning Quebec votes" if you're not. Would we be complaining as much if he was phoning the Minister of Environment to try and convince him to impose a lesser penalty or remediation on a big oil sands project rather than shutting it down?

Or maybe I'm wrong and people are referring to something else?

It makes your country look shady af to the rest of the world. Definitely hurts other businesses with international contracts.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Singh can't run another election any time soon. He has no money.

There's a lot of posters using the word "corrupt". If that is in reference to SNC, I don't think it's the right word, only because that connotes personal gain (eg. SNC paid Trudeau kickbacks or something). It's clear he went across ethics boundaries by trying to convince a Minister to do something, but that didn't seem to be motivated by greed. It's either "saving Quebec jobs" if you're charitable or "winning Quebec votes" if you're not. Would we be complaining as much if he was phoning the Minister of Environment to try and convince him to impose a lesser penalty or remediation on a big oil sands project rather than shutting it down?

Or maybe I'm wrong and people are referring to something else?

How is this comparable to a company breaking the law and punishment that should be doled out?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Singh can't run another election any time soon. He has no money.

There's a lot of posters using the word "corrupt". If that is in reference to SNC, I don't think it's the right word, only because that connotes personal gain (eg. SNC paid Trudeau kickbacks or something). It's clear he went across ethics boundaries by trying to convince a Minister to do something, but that didn't seem to be motivated by greed. It's either "saving Quebec jobs" if you're charitable or "winning Quebec votes" if you're not. Would we be complaining as much if he was phoning the Minister of Environment to try and convince him to impose a lesser penalty or remediation on a big oil sands project rather than shutting it down?

Or maybe I'm wrong and people are referring to something else?

He fired his Attorney general for not intervening in the independent office of prosecution. It is Nixon.

If he had in the end accepted the decision of the Attorney General then I would agree with you that the conversations weren’t ethical but in the realm of politics. But he didn’t. He moved her out of the way then fired her.

The key difference is the minister of environment isn’t supposed to be independent from government like the Attorney General is.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/con...329809?cmp=rss


I guess we will see how in-touch the delegates are with the rest of Canada.

If they don’t get rid of him it’s no longer the rest of Canada with the issue. It would be the west refusing to be part of Canada.

[madmike]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Liberals with one seat in the provinces west of Ontario. I'm glad there's one guy in the CBC panel who brought up electoral reform.

I don’t think electoral reform will help the CPC.

If anything it will result in more people voting NDP and Green because they won’t be concerned about vote splitting. Say what you want about the Liberals, but they’re easier to work with than the NDP and Greens would be.

So while electoral reform may help the CPC win more minority governments they’ll need to work with the other parties. There will never be another majority government if there’s electoral reform - which is good and bad.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Weitz

How is this comparable to a company breaking the law and punishment that should be doled out?

SNC broke the law. There was a choice of punishments. Trudeau's involvement seems to be at that end - an unsuccessful attempt to sway that choice, presumably to avoid the bankruptcy of SNC. It's wrong, but I don't see him as being corrupt like, say, Trump self dealing to enrich himself. I'd call it improperly zealous, cynically political and holding to "ends justify the means".

So my analogy is - if an energy company breaks an environmental law, there's various punishments - from cleanup to fines to shutdown. The Dept says "we are going to shut down this project". PM Scheer phones and tries hard (unsuccessfully) to get a different punishment in order to keep the project going.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Singh can't run another election any time soon. He has no money.

There's a lot of posters using the word "corrupt". If that is in reference to SNC, I don't think it's the right word, only because that connotes personal gain (eg. SNC paid Trudeau kickbacks or something). It's clear he went across ethics boundaries by trying to convince a Minister to do something, but that didn't seem to be motivated by greed. It's either "saving Quebec jobs" if you're charitable or "winning Quebec votes" if you're not. Would we be complaining as much if he was phoning the Minister of Environment to try and convince him to impose a lesser penalty or remediation on a big oil sands project rather than shutting it down?

Or maybe I'm wrong and people are referring to something else?

You're missing the component of the massive donations that SNC Lavalin has pumped into the Liberal Party including a illegal donation.


You're also forgetting that SNC Lavalin pretty much designed and encouraged the Libs to put the DPA's into the omnibus bill.


It wasn't about jobs because there was little chance of job loss, SNC had a ton of back fill work.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

SNC broke the law. There was a choice of punishments. Trudeau's involvement seems to be at that end - an unsuccessful attempt to sway that choice, presumably to avoid the bankruptcy of SNC. It's wrong, but I don't see him as being corrupt like, say, Trump self dealing to enrich himself. I'd call it improperly zealous, cynically political and holding to "ends justify the means".

So my analogy is - if an energy company breaks an environmental law, there's various punishments - from cleanup to fines to shutdown. The Dept says "we are going to shut down this project". PM Scheer phones and tries hard (unsuccessfully) to get a different punishment in order to keep the project going.

There wasn’t a choice of punishments that the government or attorney genera gets to pick.

The process is the prosecutor decides what charges to pursue. The attourney genera ensures due process is followed. That’s it. No politics.

The issue actually has nothing to do with SNC at all. It is simply using the prosecutors office for political gains.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GGG

He fired his Attorney general for not intervening in the independent office of prosecution. It is Nixon.

If he had in the end accepted the decision of the Attorney General then I would agree with you that the conversations weren’t ethical but in the realm of politics. But he didn’t. He moved her out of the way then fired her.

The key difference is the minister of environment isn’t supposed to be independent from government like the Attorney General is.

Well, he didn't fire her. She resigned (saying the pressure was the cause). So the question would be whether he intentionally pressured her knowing that she'd resign - or was it just to get a result. I think Trudeau is tunnel-visioned enough, and has a false belief in his own abilities, and thought he could just convince her to do what he wanted. He believed his press clippings at this point.

Nixon fired an AG who was essentially in charge of investigating Nixon, not some company. So he did it to stay in office. JWR wasn't investigating Trudeau.

[CaptainCrunch]

She was shuffled, and she was pressured, and she was attacked by other members of her party. She might not have been "fired" but they made the environment around her toxic enough for her to step down.

[nik-]

Imagine still trying to hand wave away the SNC scandal as no big thing. That's embarrassing.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by doozwimp

Edit: Also AC Wimbledon. Sorry, didnt notice your contribution at first. Edit: oops sorry didnt mean to creat a new post. meant to edit.

I am glad he replaced that jerk, DC Wimbledon.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Singh can't run another election any time soon. He has no money.

There's a lot of posters using the word "corrupt". If that is in reference to SNC, I don't think it's the right word, only because that connotes personal gain (eg. SNC paid Trudeau kickbacks or something). It's clear he went across ethics boundaries by trying to convince a Minister to do something, but that didn't seem to be motivated by greed. It's either "saving Quebec jobs" if you're charitable or "winning Quebec votes" if you're not. Would we be complaining as much if he was phoning the Minister of Environment to try and convince him to impose a lesser penalty or remediation on a big oil sands project rather than shutting it down?

Or maybe I'm wrong and people are referring to something else?

On the first part - No, there won't be an election right away, of course. Probably within two years though.

On the latter, SNC is part of it. Trudeau's actions followed heavily lobbying and donations from SNC Lavelin to try and get exactly what Trudeau was attempting to force JWR to do. But that was only one of Trudeau's many ethical breaches. Including accepting vacations paid for by the Aga Khan. Trudeau has made it pretty clear that he's into quid pro quo if he thinks he can get away with it.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You're missing the component of the massive donations that SNC Lavalin has pumped into the Liberal Party including a illegal donation.


You're also forgetting that SNC Lavalin pretty much designed and encouraged the Libs to put the DPA's into the omnibus bill.


It wasn't about jobs because there was little chance of job loss, SNC had a ton of back fill work.

Your first point can point to corruption, providing Trudeau was in on the illegal donation or if any donation was tied to his efforts to reduce their penalty. The others don't - they go more with my argument.

Again, I'm not saying it wasn't wrong. I'm saying it doesn't point to self-enrichment. Perhaps my definition of corruption is overly narrow. Certainly political gain is at issue here. But that is a huge continuum - lots of industries, or even individuals "invest" via donations to parties who they expect will do things that benefit them. That all should change IMO.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Singh can't run another election any time soon. He has no money.

There's a lot of posters using the word "corrupt". If that is in reference to SNC, I don't think it's the right word, only because that connotes personal gain (eg. SNC paid Trudeau kickbacks or something). It's clear he went across ethics boundaries by trying to convince a Minister to do something, but that didn't seem to be motivated by greed. It's either "saving Quebec jobs" if you're charitable or "winning Quebec votes" if you're not. Would we be complaining as much if he was phoning the Minister of Environment to try and convince him to impose a lesser penalty or remediation on a big oil sands project rather than shutting it down?

Or maybe I'm wrong and people are referring to something else?

I'd argue engaging in illegal activities to try to secure Quebec votes for his party so he can stay in power is a pretty big personal gain, so the word "corrupt" is used pretty accurately in this sense.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

The separatism mentality is flooding my Facebook feed right now. I’m sure a lot of it is reactionary BS but it’s still quite amazing how many seemingly rational people can lose their minds so quickly.

Yeah, a lot of people seem to forget that Quebec had leverage. It has access to Hudson's Bay and the St. Lawrence.


Alberta can maybe roll barrels of oil down the Bow River or N. Saskatchewan and hope for the best.