[PGT] Wild 4, Flames 2

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Since January 1st.

Rittich has started 13 games. He is 9-1-2, .900 sv%, 2.84 GAA.

Smith has started 12 games. He is 8-4-1, .904 save%, 2.81 GAA.

So if Mike Smith shouldn't be starting for an NHL team, what does that mean for David Rittich?

This stretch is the best Smith has been playing all season, and yet his numbers are similar to Rittich's worst stretch. Chances are, this is as good as Smith gets, and perhaps the worst Rittich gets. Never mind that David has looked like he's turned the corner in the last few games.

That and you can't discount context. All season long, Smith has let in horrible goals at the worst possible times that completely deflate the team. Goals that would be absolutely series-killers. Rittich has pulled a few boners...but they have been few and far between.

[442scotty]

I have zero faith in Smith for the playoffs. Unfortunately Goaltending will be this teams undoing in the playoffs but Rittich is the teams only hope.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Table 5

This stretch is the best Smith has been playing all season, and yet his numbers are similar to Rittich's worst stretch. Chances are, this is as good as Smith gets, and perhaps the worst Rittich gets. Never mind that David has looked like he's turned the corner in the last few games.

That and you can't discount context. All season long, Smith has let in horrible goals at the worst possible times that completely deflate the team. Goals that would be absolutely series-killers. Rittich has pulled a few boners...but they have been few and far between.

Hey i dont disagree.

All Im attempting to illustrate here is that there is a massive double standard by many on this forum between the two players.

Personally I dont care WHO starts, as long as the team is winning, as I would assume most fans of the team would. Others have a very personal vendetta against Mike Smith for some reason though and it taints/blinds the reality of what has been going on. Thats a full 2 month sample size.

No question Smith was bad last night. Also no doubt Rittich gets the net next and hopefully he runs with it. Mre than anything though lets hope that BOTH guys are going good when it really starts to matter, and for that to happen both guys have to get games in...simple stuff.

[Macindoc]

Smith’s aggressive puck play certainly leads to some goals against, and they are easily identified. What is less easily noticed is how it also breaks up cycles and allows for easier zone exits and quicker transitions, preventing goals that would have occurred if the cycle had been allowed to continue. This is why in spite of both the giveaways and the pucks that inexplicably go through him, Smith and Rittich’s stats are almost identical.

Smith is much better handling the puck when he is confident and moves it quickly, and his positioning is also better. I suspect this is why Peters is trying to get him in a rhythm with regular starts.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by AC

@Fan960Steinberg
One more story on Saturday’s man of the hour. On my way out after 1 am was surprised to see a big crowd just inside the main exit.

Jarome Iginla STILL signing autographs and posing for pictures. Pretty cool. #Flames


Wow.

This man truly spoiled us. He's the best there ever will be.

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Macindoc

Smith’s aggressive puck play certainly leads to some goals against, and they are easily identified. What is less easily noticed is how it also breaks up cycles and allows for easier zone exits and quicker transitions, preventing goals that would have occurred if the cycle had been allowed to continue. This is why in spite of both the giveaways and the pucks that inexplicably go through him, Smith and Rittich’s stats are almost identical.

Smith is much better handling the puck when he is confident and moves it quickly, and his positioning is also better. I suspect this is why Peters is trying to get him in a rhythm with regular starts.

Yeah, only that Smith's and Rittich's stats are nowhere near identical.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by crapshoot

Yeah, only that Smith's and Rittich's stats are nowhere near identical.

For the season...no.

But recently and how they are playing now?

Could be twins.

Rittich looks like the more likely to improve on them though, and he will get that opportunity.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Hey i dont disagree.

All Im attempting to illustrate here is that there is a massive double standard by many on this forum between the two players.

Personally I dont care WHO starts, as long as the team is winning, as I would assume most fans of the team would. Others have a very personal vendetta against Mike Smith for some reason though and it taints/blinds the reality of what has been going on. Thats a full 2 month sample size.

No question Smith was bad last night. Also no doubt Rittich gets the net next and hopefully he runs with it. Mre than anything though lets hope that BOTH guys are going good when it really starts to matter, and for that to happen both guys have to get games in...simple stuff.

There is no personal vendetta. That's a narrative some keep pushing here that I don't see. People are just fed up with his goaltending and inability to perform at even a competent level in any pressure situations. I'm just tired of all the apologists who jump at the first signs of him performing at an average level, and throw out his wins record repeatedly when it's clear a lot of those wins are because of the team in front of him, not because of his stellar goaltending.

You may think it's tiring to see Flames fans piling on, but it's just as tiring seeing all the chastising of posters legitimately voicing their frustrations on Smith's bad play.

This includes guys like Wills, who even yesterday just refuses to admit Smith played bad and blamed the team for being flat in the third. Guess when they started becoming flat? When Smith let in that momentum sapping crap second goal. And it's not like he does it once in awhile. You can pretty much count on him doing it every other game. It is not a good sign when you come away from any Flames win going, thank goodness we didn't see a Smith special tonight.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Since January 1st.

Rittich has started 13 games. He is 9-1-2, .900 sv%, 2.84 GAA.

Smith has started 12 games. He is 8-4-1, .904 save%, 2.81 GAA.

So if Mike Smith shouldn't be starting for an NHL team, what does that mean for David Rittich?

I love using completely arbritrary dates to fit my bias

[Flash Walken]

What a waste to go into the post season with this goaltending and do nothing to address it all season or at the deadline.

I don't think fantenberg is moving the needle in whether Mike Smith goes for a jog mid game.

'i can't remember the last time his luck playing resulted in a goal' is one of the funnier lines on cp in recent months and there have been some doozies.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Since January 1st.

Rittich has started 13 games. He is 9-1-2, .900 sv%, 2.84 GAA.

Smith has started 12 games. He is 8-4-1, .904 save%, 2.81 GAA.

So if Mike Smith shouldn't be starting for an NHL team, what does that mean for David Rittich?

I think one could easily say that starting Rittich makes perfect sense.

Unless you think 4/1000 of a number is truly material.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

There is no personal vendetta. That's a narrative some keep pushing here that I don't see. People are just fed up with his goaltending and inability to perform at even a competent level in any pressure situations. I'm just tired of all the apologists who jump at the first signs of him performing at an average level, and throw out his wins record repeatedly when it's clear a lot of those wins are because of the team in front of him, not because of his stellar goaltending.

You may think it's tiring to see Flames fans piling on, but it's just as tiring seeing all the chastising of posters legitimately voicing their frustrations on Smith's bad play.

This includes guys like Wills, who even yesterday just refuses to admit Smith played bad and blamed the team for being flat in the third. Guess when they started becoming flat? When Smith let in that momentum sapping crap second goal. And it's not like he does it once in awhile. You can pretty much count on him doing it every other game. It is not a good sign when you come away from any Flames win going, thank goodness we didn't see a Smith special tonight.

Again, for over 2 months now, the numbers are almost identical. Maybe that sample size isn't sufficient in your eyes?

Same team in front of both guys. One guy gets piled on mercilessly, the other has people freaking out if he doesn't start every single game. ALL I said is that i hope BOTH guys get to a better level.

So bizarre.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

I love using completely arbritrary dates to fit my bias

OK...you tell me what numbers make more sense when determining who is playing well NOW....last 5 games each?...10?....last game only?

And Jan. 1 is arbitrary?

I guess it is when it doesn't fit YOUR narrative.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

There is no personal vendetta. That's a narrative some keep pushing here that I don't see. People are just fed up with his goaltending and inability to perform at even a competent level in any pressure situations. I'm just tired of all the apologists who jump at the first signs of him performing at an average level, and throw out his wins record repeatedly when it's clear a lot of those wins are because of the team in front of him, not because of his stellar goaltending.

You may think it's tiring to see Flames fans piling on, but it's just as tiring seeing all the chastising of posters legitimately voicing their frustrations on Smith's bad play.

This includes guys like Wills, who even yesterday just refuses to admit Smith played bad and blamed the team for being flat in the third. Guess when they started becoming flat? When Smith let in that momentum sapping crap second goal. And it's not like he does it once in awhile. You can pretty much count on him doing it every other game. It is not a good sign when you come away from any Flames win going, thank goodness we didn't see a Smith special tonight.

I was thinking back to the Francis interview during intermission a couple of games ago when he was praising Smith's puck-handling skills.

He admitted that one out of 10 times it goes badly, but we dont see all the good the other 9 times.

I have to call BS on that. First of all, 1 out of 10 is a lot of goals to give up and really speaks to Smith's sub-.900 save percentage and if the puck ends up in the back of the net once for every ten times Smith handles the puck, as it seems to be doing lately, that way, waaaaaay too many goals against.

Frankly, I dont think Smith's puckhandling is as much of an amazing advantage as people tend to advocate that it is, in fact, I think many other teams around the league are doing just fine with a goaltender who stays in the net.

Granted, as we saw last night, even being in the net with no traffic or screen all the time in the world and directly behind the puck hasnt been going all that well for Smith either.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Shazam

I think one could easily say that starting Rittich makes perfect sense.

Unless you think 4/1000 of a number is truly material.

Try reading the question again.

I never suggested either guy, so no idea why you would suggest the bolded.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Try reading the question again.

I never suggested either guy, so no idea why you would suggest the bolded.

The point is that there really is no point in starting Smith.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by transplant99

OK...you tell me what numbers make more sense when determining who is playing well NOW....last 5 games each?...10?....last game only?

And Jan. 1 is arbitrary?

I guess it is when it doesn't fit YOUR narrative.

Uh yes it is absolutely arbitrary, if you understand the word. My narrative is that David Rittich is the much better goaltender and his season long stats, the only ones that actually matter, completely prove that and it is totally ridiculous that Smith got 7 of 9 starts. See, you have to cherry pick data to prove the silly take you’re on, my take uses the actual full picture.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Again, for over 2 months now, the numbers are almost identical. Maybe that sample size isn't sufficient in your eyes?

Same team in front of both guys. One guy gets piled on mercilessly, the other has people freaking out if he doesn't start every single game. ALL I said is that i hope BOTH guys get to a better level.

So bizarre.

It's not just his record, I just hate the way Smith plays goalie in general. To me, he just doesn't pass the eye test. It's the way he lets in goals, and the timing of them. More often then not, they are back breaking goals. I have zero confidence in the Flames making any noise in the playoffs if this guy is our starting goalie. It's not a knock on him as a person, I'm just criticizing him solely as a player for the Flames.

[Yobbo]

Originally Posted by Captaincanada80

Haven’t had the time to read through all the pages. Is anyone else really disappointed that the Zucker trade didn’t work out, my goodness he looked phenomenal last night.

I thought the same thing. His playstyle would definitely work well with Calgary's style of play. He would have been a fantastic add.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Uh yes it is absolutely arbitrary, if you understand the word. My narrative is that David Rittich is the much better goaltender and his season long stats, the only ones that actually matter, completely prove that and it is totally ridiculous that Smith got 7 of 9 starts. See, you have to cherry pick data to prove the silly take you’re on, my take uses the actual full picture.

Really?

Im thinking that what guys do in October and November have absolutely no bearing on whats happening in March and on.

LOL