[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by sempuki

You're unhinged dude.

At that moment yes unhinged to a fault.
No point lying about it.
This above all to thine own self be true.

As for the trade I am not backing off it was a poor trade with a basement dweller and the return was not compatible to what was traded away.
The Flames are not better today than they were yesterday.
Nor did the Flames get the better player.

[JurassicTunga12]

This picture of Lindholm at the 2013 draft always gets me

[ricardodw]

If Lindholm plays mostly with Gaudreau and Monahan he will be a 60+ pt player.

Hudler had 76 pts with Gaudreau and Monahan and he wasn't as good a player as Lindholm (and either were they as in JG and Monahan are better now than they were with Hudler)

[TheScorpion]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

At that moment yes unhinged to a fault.
No point lying about it.
This above all to thine own self be true.

Polonius? Is that you?

[btimbit]

edit; wrong thread

[iloveicedhockey]

Originally Posted by MJK

There is one way to settle this argument, who wins the deal in NHL18?

I think someone already tried it and Carolina says no.

[killer_carlson]

I really don't like reading that Hamilton found out from TV. That's really poor form from the Flames organization.

We're much better than that.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Hudler had 76 pts with Gaudreau and Monahan and he wasn't as good a player as Lindholm (and either were they as in JG and Monahan are better now than they were with Hudler)

Can Hudler ever get credit for his own play that year? First half of the year the line's center wasn't Monahan, it was guys like Josh Jooris and Marcus Granlund. Second half of the year Hudler had the Midas touch turning every Kris Russell point shot and Sean Monahan faceoff win into a goal. He led the team in scoring - not Monahan and not Gaudreau, and overall led the entire NHL in even strength scoring. Regardless of whether that was sustainable, it wasn't just some meh player being carried by his linemates. It was a guy having an unbelievable year kicking and dragging this team to its first playoff birth in a long time.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

I wouldn't mind if we had the smallest fanbase in the league if we could shed some of these embarrassments that give us a bad name.

Trust me, I live in Toronto... I've watched many parades planned, and lynch mobs formed. The sky is falling mentality and the homerism is by no means unique to Calgary's fan base. You have to expect a mixed reaction to a deal like this, you would in any fanbase in any sport.


As the the trade, I'm ok with it. Would obviously rather get a 1RW for Hamilton, but two young proven players with a long runway in return, I'm pretty good with this.

Let's be realistic, the existing line up didn't work. Ferland was most likely gone as soon as UFA hit and we really don't know what the runway was there. In many ways it felt a lot like when Colborne was traded away...

Fox seemed more and more likely to never signing with the Flames. I mean that sucked and all, and I suppose we could potentially blame that on the Stone resigning, but I'm still good with Stone personally, so meh. It happens, we were/are stacked at D.

BTs tweets on Hamilton are pretty telling. Let's remember, he did sit two games. The offensive numbers were great, but obviously it wasn't all rainbows and kittens there.

It's also a salary dump, opening up for a UFA signing potentially. All told, meh, I'm ok with it.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I really don't like reading that Hamilton found out from TV. That's really poor form from the Flames organization.

We're much better than that.

Happens all the time and is unavoidable.

What’s treliving supposed to do? Tell the Carolina GM they have to put the trade on hold so he can start phoning players? The information moves way too fast for that to work. Trades leak within minutes, seconds even. It’s just not possible to keep players in the loop until the trade is done and by then it’s too late.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

At that moment yes unhinged to a fault.
No point lying about it.
This above all to thine own self be true.

As for the trade I am not backing off it was a poor trade with a basement dweller and the return was not compatible to what was traded away.
The Flames are not better today than they were yesterday.
Nor did the Flames get the better player.

Not a chance.

This is exactly the trade the Flames needed to make. You constantly broadcast your ignorance on all matters hockey related like the town drunk stumbling around leaning on anyone who will lend an ear.

[Serapth]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

Not a chance.

This is exactly the trade the Flames needed to make. You constantly broadcast your ignorance on all matters hockey related like the town drunk stumbling around leaning on anyone who will lend an ear.

More to the point, why would it matter if we traded with a basement dweller? That's just stupid frankly.

If you pull a player from a top 5 team, you're more apt to find a player with artificially inflated numbers due to the quality of players they've played with. When it comes to a young player, being from a bottom dweller can be considered a good thing. Generally that means a higher level draft pick, and a higher potential runway for the player acquired, due to now player with other higher skilled players.

In short, being good on a bad team, especially while young, is basically better than being good on a good team.

[looooob]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

There have been several comments about how Dougie is already on his third team at age 25 (he just had a birthday last week). Have there been any other players (i.e. good players, not just middling prospects) that have done the same? Just curious how his situation might compare...

Olli jokinen!

[browna]

Interesting Flames TV clip with Leslie having Peters on. Just posted I think on Twitter.
Edit here: https://www.nhl.com/flames/video/one...092/c-60669703

At the end, said when asked about talking with Treliving this weekend, there has been a couple trade scenarios this weekend, one with the guys he’s had in Carolina and another with guys he’s had internationally...

McDavid to Calgary E6

[BigJim]

Something that I'm wondering about is the statement that the Flames have been looking to move Hamilton for some time now, at least over the last year. If that's true, and this trade is, presumably, the best that BT could get, what does that say about Hamilton's true value? Some seem to feel that he should have commanded a bigger return, so something doesn't seem right here. I personally don't believe that Treliving wasn't thorough in gauging interest for Dougie league-wide before making this deal.

[Lanny'sDaMan]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Since u asked.

He seemed to take Bradley as an insult when I met him this year at the STH year end and I was introduced by my rep.
He shook my hand and I said so Bradley in what way are you going to meddle with a trade this year?
He pretty much glared at me before answer.
Then I said was going into the draft with no picks until the 4th the plan Bradley.
I was pleased that it irritated him.
I didn't let him reply and said what do you think all the fans are here to be all kissy kissy.
I don't like him and I make no bones about it.

[thymebalm]

For those scrolling page after page to find my opinion, it's as follows:

Love the trade. Elias Lindholm is an upgrade in the top-6 in a versatile way, Noah Hanafin is going to be beauty, and Adam Fox may have had his highest value as a rights only player this summer, as he sort of declined in his draft +1 year in terms of NHLe and dominance in his league.

With Peters as the head coach I think the Flames know exactly what they got and what was worth giving up for them.

Treliving sold incredibly high on all three players, and brought in two young exciting talented would be core players. Can't wait for camp.

[420since1974]

My take on the recent Calgary Flames trade:

To Carolina:

Dougie Hamilton (RH RD) - 25 years old, 6’6”, 210lb. Drafted in the first round (9th overall) in 2011.

Hamilton is a very good offensive defense-man, who has often been prone to defensive gaffs and lazy, undisciplined penalties. He has played most of his career with Top D partners Zdeno Chara and Mark Giordano, who have covered for some of his defensive lapses. Despite being a big man, he plays quite a soft game. Beginning in Boston and continuing in Calgary; there have been persistent (though unsubstantiated) rumours that he doesn’t fit in well with his teammates. Signed to the end of 2020/2021 at $5.75M per.

Michael Ferland (LH LW/RW) – 26 years old, 6’2”, 208lb. Drafted in the 5th round (133rd overall) in 2010.

Ferland is a bottom 6 forward that played quite well with Sean Monahan and Johnny Gaudreau for several months. His career has been consistently inconsistent, a world beater one night, invisible the next. The physical play that he famously displayed against Vancouver in the 2015 play-offs has all but disappeared since his last concussion. Signed to the end of next season at $1.75M per, he will then be a UFA probably looking to at least double his salary.

Adam Fox (RH RD) – 20 years old, 5’11”, 181lb. Drafted in the 3rd round (66th overall) in 2016.

Fox is a good offensive defense-man who doesn’t appear to care much about his own end of the ice. He is a decent skater with great vision and elite passing skills. His size prevents him from having much of a physical presence. He has played for Harvard in the NCAA for the last two seasons and had refused to talk about contract offers from the Flames. This has led some people to believe that he intends to play out all 4 seasons in Harvard. He’d then become a UFA and could sign with the highest bidder.

To Calgary:

Noah Hanifin (LH LD) – 21 years old, 6’3”, 206lb. Drafted in the 1st round (5th overall) in 2015.

Hanifin is a talented “all-around” defense-man who has continued to improve every season. He seldom chips the puck out of the D zone; preferring to skate it out or pass it up to a forward. He is very skilled at O-zone entries; which should eliminate the need for some of the Flame’s “dump and chase” plays. Hanifin is projected to play on the 2nd pairing with veteran Travis Hamonic. This will allow Calgary to move TJ Brodie back to playing on Giordano’s right side, where Brodie had his greatest success. Hanifin is a RFA without arbitration rights coming off of an ELC ($925k Cap Hit, $1.775M AAV).

Elias Lindholm (RH C/RW) – 23 years old, 6’1”, 192lb. Drafted in the 1st round (5th overall) in 2013.

Lindholm is a hardworking, versatile, skilled forward who plays well in the “dirty areas”. He competes well in all 3 zones and has averaged a 52.7 FO% over 5 NHL seasons. His shot could use some improvement; while it is accurate, it’s not especially hard. He is projected to play at RW with Monahan/Gaudreau and will probably share face-off duties with Monahan, depending on which side the draw is. During his draft year, the Flames were reportedly just as interested in him as they were in Monahan. Lindholm is a RFA with arbitration rights coming off of a two year, $2.7M per contract.



Overall, I feel that this trade could benefit both teams, but I think that it will take 4 years before we know for sure.

If Carolina pairs Hamilton with Jaccob Slavin, they should have a great Top D pairing for at least 3 seasons. Ferland could help them out for at least one year; as he can play up and down their lineup. For the Hurricanes to win this trade, they would need to sign Fox and hope that he can become their PP quarterback 4 years down the road.

Among other things, Calgary apparently needed a dressing room shake-up and a Top 6 RW. I believe that it's "mission accomplished" on both of those items. They also got a little younger. Lindholm should be able to put up 50+ points playing with SM & JG, anything more will be a bonus. It will probably help that both players are very familiar with Calgary’s new coach (their old coach). For the Flames to win this trade, Hanifin will need to continue his steady development and come close to filling Giordano’s spot in 4 years.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

For those scrolling page after page to find my opinion, it's as follows:

Love the trade. Elias Lindholm is an upgrade in the top-6 in a versatile way, Noah Hanafin is going to be beauty, and Adam Fox may have had his highest value as a rights only player this summer, as he sort of declined in his draft +1 year in terms of NHLe and dominance in his league.

With Peters as the head coach I think the Flames know exactly what they got and what was worth giving up for them.

Treliving sold incredibly high on all three players, and brought in two young exciting talented would be core players. Can't wait for camp.

Trading them when their value is high is not the same thing as "selling high". Selling high means you traded them at peak value, but also maximized the value that you can get back. I don't think the Flames did that today.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Since u asked.

He seemed to take Bradley as an insult when I met him this year at the STH year end and I was introduced by my rep.
He shook my hand and I said so Bradley in what way are you going to meddle with a trade this year?

I'm still trying to figure out what this means. "Meddle with a trade"?
He's the GM, his job is to make trades. How can he meddle with his something that he's supposed to be doing?
If you had said that to KK, I'd understand.