[News] Ken King: Flames' owners no longer pursuing new arena with City of Calgary

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Thing is - how much real life financial skin do Calgary taxpayers even have? I get people saying "I don't want my taxes to go up". I suspect they say that no matter what the project is. But what is the real dollar value impact per household if, for example, the City just paid for 1/3 without a recovery? How much of that is offset by any increase to the tax base through East Village revitalization? I understand studies suggest the buildings don't "pay for themselves". OK, so what's the real life impact? Is it a $50 increase on a 3 bedroom house, or a $5000 increase?

far less than $50

[442scotty]

And the use of common sense in the world today, never mind Calgary, is in short supply unfortunately.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And my entire point was its pretty easy to tell them what to not spend their money on.

Thanks for agreeing.

Except one of those avenues lets the people keep their money.

[Flash Walken]

A loan without interest would be a $75m gift to the flames.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Correct, my comments mattered less then, just like yours do now.

Oh, so there are second tier fans for the Calgary Flames too? Must be an Alberta thing.

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Bang on and why threats to move are so disingenuous.

But the city isn't putting up 1/3 . They want it paid back do they not?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Good for you. Should a family of four lacking the interest or disposable income in the Flames and/or concerts also be subsidizing your entertainment?

It's entertainment for thousands of Calgarians and out of towners that come into the city to see games annually. It leads to the employment of people in radio, newspapers, internet sports, etc that are tasked with covering the team as well as the hundreds of local jobs CSEC creates. I can guarantee (lol watch someone dig up something I said years ago doh!) you cannot find a post here of me complaining about money going into a new library despite the fact that I don't use it. I recognize it's not all about me and maybe I'm a minority but I care about the city and I realize my tax money is going to get spent on a lot of things I don't use or care about but I look at what's best for the greater good and having an NHL city IMO is for the greater good of this city. CESC isn't going to fully pay for a new arena and that's not going to change so it's a matter of getting a deal done or watching the team leave. It's not imminent but it does have to get done or the Flames will leave. The denial in this thread mirrors the Oakland residents in Raiders forums I frequent over the past four years. They were just as adamant the team had no options but to accept what the city was going to give Mark and the reality is much easier to see from the outside because I knew it was coming but they were steadfast it wasn't going to happen. It will happen in Calgary if things continue down the current path.

I still haven't heard any stories of families of four in Edmonton that are now hard done by because of the arena. The fact is that it really hasn't impacted anyone negatively in that city as if not spent on the new arena chances are that money goes into something else that same family of four doesn't utilize.

[Manhattanboy]

Considering the garbage on which the City has spent our money lately, a new facility would be a very good use of public funds.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

far less than $50

If this is so, it sure contextualizes the argument IMO.

I would be heartbroken if the flames left.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I have so many great memories growing up here with the flames.

I'd gladly kick in to help out.

I get that the issue is significantly more complex, but to me, that's all that matters.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Considering the garbage on which the City has spent our money lately, a new facility would be a very good use of public funds.

What kind of garbage? Was it the new rec centres? Was it the upgraded community halls? Was it all the new road interchanges? The many new pedestrian bridges? Oh, maybe you're thinking of the airport tunnel? The West LRT? The 4 car LRT expansion or the new LRT cars?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

What kind of garbage? Was it the new rec centres? Was it the upgraded community halls? Was it all the new road interchanges? The many new pedestrian bridges? Oh, maybe you're thinking of the airport tunnel? The West LRT? The 4 car LRT expansion or the new LRT cars?

Spendshi is just the worst.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by mazrim

what kind of garbage? Was it the new rec centres? Was it the upgraded community halls? Was it all the new road interchanges? The many new pedestrian bridges? Oh, maybe you're thinking of the airport tunnel? The west lrt? The 4 car lrt expansion or the new lrt cars?

lol

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by nik-

Except one of those avenues lets the people keep their money.

I have no idea what you are arguing about any longer.

I was responding to a guy who said its easy for people from outside the city to sit and spend others money...in response i said it was just as easy for those not living in the city to tell people what they shouldnt want their money spent on.

My personal opinion is such,

I live here and I don't mind the city picking up a chunk of the price at all. What that is and how it happens is yet to be determined in my mind, but I have zero issue with the city helping get a new arena built. Its something I will use. Things get built all the time in this city on the taxpayer dollar that i will never ever use so I feel its ok if i want something built that I can enjoy and I will use. I feel the same about a football stadium as well.

No one is saying the city should pay for all of it, much to the chagrin of a certain poster and not even the Flames have asked for such.

I do know that if a deal isn't struck, and sooner rather than later, those screaming at the top of their lungs that the team relocating is an empty threat, are playing a very dangerous game and one they will very likely lose. As I stated yesterday, not many, and certainly not city council, will win a stare down against guys like Riddell and Edwards.

I hope there is a sizable shake up on city council as its clear a change is needed among the two sides, and the ownership group isnt going anywhere. If Nenshi is re-elected as I suspect he will be, I hope he can swallow his ego just a little bit and understand this is a high stakes proposition and him being at all adversarial in it (not saying he has been thus far cause i dont know but its starting to appear that way with CSEC's declaration on Tueday) wont help.

Which all brings me to my final point on this, a new arena will get built....at some point. My preference is that it gets done with the existing franchise and their ownership. Should that not happen my guess is the team is sold and relocated. At which point another group will want to come in and set up shop in Calgary...but only if there is a new arena for them to do so. Then we are back to square one and likely to get an even worse deal for the city than anything the Flames are willing to be a part of.

My opinion only but also one that is shared by some who are very much in the know with both the league and the city itself.

I do suspect it does get done and it will be a fair deal for both sides, though those that have entrenched themselves on either side wont see it that way.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

lol

Well that's it then, argument over. It's basically all garbage. Tear it down and build 5 new arenas. We'll pay for it all.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

I'm just sticking around to see how one sided CSEC's position has to be to push their "give them anything they want" supporters to reconsider.

How many "give them anything they want" supporters do you think there actually are?

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Well that's it then, argument over. It's basically all garbage. Tear it down and build 5 new arenas. We'll pay for it all.

Well at the rate this City moves on things, it will be your grandkids paying for it all.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

How many "give them anything they want" supporters do you think there actually are?

depends on how hard the "we arent going to threaten to leave" narrative gets

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I have no idea what you are arguing about any longer.

I was responding to a guy who said its easy for people from outside the city to sit and spend others money...in response i said it was just as easy for those not living in the city to tell people what they shouldnt want their money spent on.

My personal opinion is such,

I live here and I don't mind the city picking up a chunk of the price at all. What that is and how it happens is yet to be determined in my mind, but I have zero issue with the city helping get a new arena built. Its something I will use. Things get built all the time in this city on the taxpayer dollar that i will never ever use so I feel its ok if i want something built that I can enjoy and I will use. I feel the same about a football stadium as well.

No one is saying the city should pay for all of it, much to the chagrin of a certain poster and not even the Flames have asked for such.

I do know that if a deal isn't struck, and sooner rather than later, those screaming at the top of their lungs that the team relocating is an empty threat, are playing a very dangerous game and one they will very likely lose. As I stated yesterday, not many, and certainly not city council, will win a stare down against guys like Riddell and Edwards.

I hope there is a sizable shake up on city council as its clear a change is needed among the two sides, and the ownership group isnt going anywhere. If Nenshi is re-elected as I suspect he will be, I hope he can swallow his ego just a little bit and understand this is a high stakes proposition and him being at all adversarial in it (not saying he has been thus far cause i dont know but its starting to appear that way with CSEC's declaration on Tueday) wont help.

Which all brings me to my final point on this, a new arena will get built....at some point. My preference is that it gets done with the existing franchise and their ownership. Should that not happen my guess is the team is sold and relocated. At which point another group will want to come in and set up shop in Calgary...but only if there is a new arena for them to do so. Then we are back to square one and likely to get an even worse deal for the city than anything the Flames are willing to be a part of.

My opinion only but also one that is shared by some who are very much in the know with both the league and the city itself.

I do suspect it does get done and it will be a fair deal for both sides, though those that have entrenched themselves on either side wont see it that way.

Summarized perfectly. Well said Mr. Transplant.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I have no idea what you are arguing about any longer.

I was responding to a guy who said its easy for people from outside the city to sit and spend others money...in response i said it was just as easy for those not living in the city to tell people what they shouldnt want their money spent on.

My personal opinion is such,

I live here and I don't mind the city picking up a chunk of the price at all. What that is and how it happens is yet to be determined in my mind, but I have zero issue with the city helping get a new arena built. Its something I will use. Things get built all the time in this city on the taxpayer dollar that i will never ever use so I feel its ok if i want something built that I can enjoy and I will use. I feel the same about a football stadium as well.

No one is saying the city should pay for all of it, much to the chagrin of a certain poster and not even the Flames have asked for such.

I do know that if a deal isn't struck, and sooner rather than later, those screaming at the top of their lungs that the team relocating is an empty threat, are playing a very dangerous game and one they will very likely lose. As I stated yesterday, not many, and certainly not city council, will win a stare down against guys like Riddell and Edwards.

I hope there is a sizable shake up on city council as its clear a change is needed among the two sides, and the ownership group isnt going anywhere. If Nenshi is re-elected as I suspect he will be, I hope he can swallow his ego just a little bit and understand this is a high stakes proposition and him being at all adversarial in it (not saying he has been thus far cause i dont know but its starting to appear that way with CSEC's declaration on Tueday) wont help.

Which all brings me to my final point on this, a new arena will get built....at some point. My preference is that it gets done with the existing franchise and their ownership. Should that not happen my guess is the team is sold and relocated. At which point another group will want to come in and set up shop in Calgary...but only if there is a new arena for them to do so. Then we are back to square one and likely to get an even worse deal for the city than anything the Flames are willing to be a part of.

My opinion only but also one that is shared by some who are very much in the know with both the league and the city itself.

I do suspect it does get done and it will be a fair deal for both sides, though those that have entrenched themselves on either side wont see it that way.

Very well said. I felt this way about CalgaryNEXT and the use of public funds in support. It would have been an incredible facility and, although many will disagree, I believe would have yielded immeasurable benefit to the City for decades.