Honestly, that's why some people are so anti Hillary. There's certainly some reasons to dislike her, but being anti Trump is so en vogue, some people have to try and show how they're not followers and can see behind the propaganda
I'll plead guilty to this. I don't hold them to the same standard.
Trump is a clown; his propaganda is transparent.
Clinton assumes the mantle of the most powerful and qualified Presidential candidate in history; her propaganda is specious, refined, and thorough.
That's why these tactics of dissemble, obfuscate, and discredit are more effective. And because they are more effective, I object to them more strenuously.
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The recent developments on the email front include;
-senior members of Sect. Clinton's staff received immunity in exchange for analyzing their laptops
-these immune staffers being present, as advisors and lawyers, during the FBI interview with Sect. Clinton
-false exculpatory statements & successful attempts to cover-up of the crime were not sufficient to prove intent, which was already a tenuous standing (since the statute does not require intent)
But keep crying about how the real crime is me polluting the thread.
I honestly don't care what Hillary did with her e-mails. For all I care, she could've legitimately committed a felony for which she should've been sentenced to prison time, and she would still be a much better choice for President than anyone else running.
If that's what it takes to keep Literally Hitler out of the White House, then so be it.
I'll plead guilty to this. I don't hold them to the same standard.
Trump is a clown; his propaganda is transparent.
Clinton assumes the mantle of the most powerful and qualified Presidential candidate in history; her propaganda is specious, refined, and thorough.
That's why these tactics of dissemble, obfuscate, and discredit are more effective. And because they are more effective, I object to them more strenuously.
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Honestly, that's why some people are so anti Hillary. There's certainly some reasons to dislike her, but being anti Trump is so en vogue, some people have to try and show how they're not followers and can see behind the propaganda
How can anti trump be en vogue?
It's the only rational position to take. He is not qualified to be president and has disqualified himself through his own words. Anything kind of coverage that suggests that Trump has the capability of being president is biased against Clinton.
I do agree that this may drive people to conspiracy land and Trump. But if anything suggesting that there are two credible options in this race is propaganda.
Next time if the republicans would like fair coverage maybe they could nominate a credible candidate who can be disagreed with based on ideology and policy instead of a simple referendum on his incompetence.
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I'll plead guilty to this. I don't hold them to the same standard.
Trump is a clown; his propaganda is transparent.
Clinton assumes the mantle of the most powerful and qualified Presidential candidate in history; her propaganda is specious, refined, and thorough.
That's why these tactics of dissemble, obfuscate, and discredit are more effective. And because they are more effective, I object to them more strenuously.
I hope you can't vote as you are obviously utterly unable to make a rational decision, what you are saying is you'd rather buy a piece of crap Russian made car because you don't hold them to as high a build standard as Japanese cars therefore the non working cigarette lighter on the Honda is way worse than the the engine blowing up randomly on the Lada.
This is a straight choice based on only one criteria, who will be the best president, that's it, full stop.
If you make this choice on anything else, including party, politics, even relative honesty and certainly whether you 'like' them then you are moron that shouldn't be allowed to vote. I am a socialist but I have voted Tory, Liberal, NDP and Labour ( back in the UK) over my forty odd years of voting based on either how crappy my own parties candidate is or how good the other guys are.
The decision on who runs a country is too damned important to be approached the way you support a hockey team and the fact that in the US in particular the voters seem to think this way is why the US is looking increasingly screwed .
Last edited by afc wimbledon; 10-02-2016 at 05:20 PM.
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I'll plead guilty to this. I don't hold them to the same standard.
Trump is a clown; his propaganda is transparent.
Clinton assumes the mantle of the most powerful and qualified Presidential candidate in history; her propaganda is specious, refined, and thorough.
That's why these tactics of dissemble, obfuscate, and discredit are more effective. And because they are more effective, I object to them more strenuously.
They are both in the running for the same office.
They need to be held to the same standard.
Trump has a multitude of scandals all on his own, from his shady involvement with Russia/Putin to the flat out illegal dealings of his "charitable foundation," which he's abused funds from for personal use, and which he apparently doesn't have properly set up in the first place, the apparent bribe sent to Pam Bondi so that his "university" wasn't investigated. That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of his history of racial bias, misogyny, and rape/assault accusations.
The spring Obama was running against Hillary, my niece and her boyfriend, who seemed to be a well educated and politically informed guy, from Chicago were visiting my sister. I was over for dinner and drinks and decided to question the boyfriend about Obama, as yeah it didn't seem to be much was known about him. He said that Obama had no skeletons in his closet and repeated it, which is a rarity coming out of Chicago. Okay this is completely just a second hand opinion but it's just as good as the stories that are looking for the worst.
Trump has a multitude of scandals all on his own, from his shady involvement with Russia/Putin to the flat out illegal dealings of his "charitable foundation," which he's abused funds from for personal use, and which he apparently doesn't have properly set up in the first place, the apparent bribe sent to Pam Bondi so that his "university" wasn't investigated. That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of his history of racial bias, misogyny, and rape/assault accusations.
But sure, sure, Hillary's emails are just as bad.
I hate that I'm the guy defending Trump, but alas, can't let people be wrong on the internet
Aside from the charitable foundation and misogynistic comments, those are some CNN level conspiracy items you've listed (same as the type of hilarious Fox News hits on Clinton with her being a rape enabler, defending of a child molester, health problems, etc, etc) same garbage different party.
I'd love for any factual proof or examples on any of those items, not just speculation. Putin involvement, Bondi bribe, actual racial bias, rape.
I hate that I'm the guy defending Trump, but alas, can't let people be wrong on the internet
Aside from the charitable foundation and misogynistic comments, those are some CNN level conspiracy items you've listed (same as the type of hilarious Fox News hits on Clinton with her being a rape enabler, defending of a child molester, health problems, etc, etc) same garbage different party.
I'd love for any factual proof or examples on any of those items, not just speculation. Putin involvement, Bondi bribe, actual racial bias, rape.
If we're going to rake Hillary over the coals repeatedly for the email crap, we should probably be examining all of this as well, not to mention all the other issues with Trump University, Trump doing business with Cuba while illegal to do so as an American entity, etc.
We're treating the two as if they're equally flawed, but that gives Trump a massive boost.
Last edited by wittynickname; 10-02-2016 at 10:10 PM.
Those 2 are related to a fine related to a donation. Not proof or charges relating to her dropping any case related to the donation. If there was something there, trust me, every news outlet would have been over it.
Can't comment on unsubstantiated claims made to the media with no law enforcement involvement or interest in the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wittynickname
If we're going to rake Hillary over the coals repeatedly for the email crap, we should probably be examining all of this as well, not to mention all the other issues with Trump University, Trump doing business with Cuba while illegal to do so as an American entity, etc.
We're treating the two as if they're equally flawed, but that gives Trump a massive boost.
Wait, you think Hillary is the one being treated and analysed in too much detail?
It's pretty convenient that all of those "Trump totes isn't a racist you guys" puff pieces came out after he decided to run for president.
Got anything pre-2015 that shows his kind, accepting spirit?
Its one of my above links, but from early 1998 & 1999. Rev Jesse Jackson thanking Trump for his work putting blacks & minorities into the corporate world through the "Rainbow-Push Coalition" (a non-profit Jackson started) prior to Trump speaking at that group's events & conferences.
I would reject that the only criteria is who would make the best president. Party platform does matter especially when up to 3 supreme court justices may be appointed for example. Trump has no interest in actually doing any work so the right wing lunatic fringe will be calling the shots. The court does not need 3 Scalia's put on the bench. The US can't afford that lest they be stuck in the dark ages of social rights for another 30 years.
But anyways...
In yet another indication where the bulk of the Bush family will be putting their vote, George W daughter Barbara was very visibly at a Clinton fundraiser on the weekend.
I would reject that the only criteria is who would make the best president. Party platform does matter especially when up to 3 supreme court justices may be appointed for example. Trump has no interest in actually doing any work so the rigth wing lunatic fringe will be calling the shots. The court does not need 3 Scalia's put on the bench. The US can't afford that lest they be stuck in the dark ages of social rights for another 30 years.
But anyways...
In yet another indication where the bulk of the Bush family will be putting their vote, George W daughter Barbara was very visibly at a Clinton fundraiser on the weekend.
Despite being competitors politically, the Bush and Clinton families are actually pretty friendly with each other. Bill Clinton and the senior George have been seen at some of the same charity functions in the past.
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One thing that should be concerning is that outside of LGBT issues Bush and Clinton share very similar policies. Both hawkish on foreign policy and Bush through misguided effort was very focused on addressing issues in education.
It really shows how far to the right the Democratic Party has gone:
Despite being competitors politically, the Bush and Clinton families are actually pretty friendly with each other. Bill Clinton and the senior George have been seen at some of the same charity functions in the past.
Indeed they are. And the Bushes are now close to the Obamas.
But it also says something about how far to right the GOP has moved that the Bush family is about as open as they can be going against their historical party.
George W was a terrible president in that he was an ill prepared puppet but fundamentally he is likely a decent guy. Trump on the other hand will likely also be a puppet but an evil one who will happily go along with more extreme plans. And make no mistake Pence really isn't much better than Trump if it is Pence who ends up actually running the show.
The reality that a very large proportion of team voters in the US don't see is that the democrat party IS the center party the GOP USED to be. The GOP is not the GOP of Reagan and George Bush I...or even George Bush 2. Where they differ is on stuff people really shouldn't care about in the first place (who is marrying whom, what bathroom someone uses...)
also on the e-mails....it's not a story. Investigation was done. It's over. Stupid things were done without intent. Intent matters. As with all things related to IT, intellectual property, trade secrets, confidential information, export controlled information etc there isn't a person in this world that has done it 100% properly in any job. If they were to put forth the same effort in investigating everyone in Washington on how they treat this information you will find every single Senator and congressman making similar mistakes. maybe not a personal server but sending things by e-mail that shouldn't be sent. Leaving a file lying around. Etc etc etc. Why? Because humans are stupid when it comes to handling sensitive information.
Last edited by ernie; 10-03-2016 at 08:31 AM.
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