2 year old boy snatched by alligator at Disney World

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

This has to do with what exactly?

People who don't have kids vastly overestimate how much control parents have over children.

Originally Posted by GGG

I think the opposite his happening, people aren't ignoring logic, its people who want to feel safe that this will never happen to their kids need to blame the parents. This allows them to say that this would never happen to me as I wouldn't have done X. And allows them to hide the fact that the world can be scary place where random terrible stuff happens and you can do nothing to prevent it. That's why parents get blamed. It's a coping mechanism to stop that feeling of helplessness in the pit of your stomach when you read stories like this.

We can lock this thread now.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Oh no, it's definitely illegal.

Sorry if I derailed the thread; just illustrating that warnings are usually given so this Disney thing is really odd to me.

There's a long story to that poaching incident - it led to an officer being put back out there full time. Made him happy!

The initial responding West Palm officer said he didn't know it was illegal to take the gator.


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I was in your neck of the woods about 5 months ago. There was alligator warnings everywhere. Pretty shocking if this resort didn't have them. It's being reported in the news that the neighboring resorts had alligator warnings.

[Dion]

Are hotel resorts liable for Gator attacks

Courts in the Sunshine State have observed what most Floridians already know: alligators are native to Florida. Accordingly, landowners are not automatically required to have them "under dominion and control."

It's important to note that this wild animal doctrine certainly does not provide blanket immunity to a resort in a situation like this. Florida courts recognize that landowners may be negligent if they know or should know of an unreasonable risk of harm posed by an animal on their premises, and cannot expect patrons to realize the danger or guard against it.

So, for example, suppose a resort had a known infestation of fire ants, and failed to call pest control. Suppose also that patrons checking in and out of the hotel were not warned and had no reason to know that the hotel is in fire ant territory. Then suppose that the hotel knowingly leaves out food that might attract fire ants. That might be a case where the resort's negligence overcomes any protections of the wild animal doctrine.

The ferae naturae doctrine really only says that a resort or other landowner is not automatically liable for what wild animals on the property may do, but only so long as the animal is native, and the landowner didn't keep the animal as a hotel pet.

What if, as has been reported, Disney posted "No Swimming" signs? The signage will be critical, too. When it comes to alligator attacks, courts in Florida have held that a swimmer's disregard of "No Swimming" and other warning signs were the sole cause of the serious injuries.

Even with adequate signage and ferae naturae doctrine, a resort could still be liable in spite of all these protections, if it's flat-out negligent.

Resort liability in Florida for an alligator attack will depend on the specific facts -- not only the facts of the tragedy itself, but what the resort did and knew in advance about the alligators, and the likelihood of the harm.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/opinio...anny-cevallos/

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think the opposite is happening, people aren't ignoring logic, its people who want to feel safe that this will never happen to their kids need to blame the parents. This allows them to say that this would never happen to me as I wouldn't have done X. And allows them to hide the fact that the world can be scary place where random terrible stuff happens and you can do nothing to prevent it. That's why parents get blamed. It's a coping mechanism to stop that feeling of helplessness in the pit of your stomach when you read stories like this.

That's insightful.

There's another type of person that's quick to blame the parents and that's the kind of guy where the world hasn't been a scary place, where bad things haven't happened.

I've known some people that have lived relatively charmed lives where some of the upsets/hurdles/tragedies a lot of people face have never been a part of their lives. No divorce, no family suicides, no financial crises, no abuse, no illnesses, no serious injuries, both sets of grandparents still alive, etc.

There are a million things that can go wrong in life that can knock you down, hurt you, scar you, etc., but there are some lucky people that just haven't had to face those things - or worse - more than one of those things at once. Those people tend to think fate is more within their control than more experienced people know it to be.

[Joe Nieuwendyk]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

I just don't get the complete denial of a lot of people here that an alligator attack is in the realm of possibility. To me this a little close to home with people for kids and is resulting in some pretty illogical statements.

There's a vast difference between possible and probable. You obviously think that the child was condemned to death the moment he dipped his toe in the water. That's fine. Seems a little crazy to me but that's just me. To me this is a little close to home for someone who had a traumatic moment as a child with an alligator and is resulting in some pretty illogical statements.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Has to do with the comment about the parents could have been more mindful.

I understand that, so what does him having or not having kids have to do with it?

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

People who don't have kids vastly overestimate how much control parents have over children.

This is not true at all, you have as much control over a 2 year old as you want.

[Dion]

An attorney says Disney could face a “multimillion dollar” lawsuit in the death of a two-year old toddler who was dragged into a lagoon by an alligator at a Disney resort in Florida on Tuesday night.

"Were there signs that say, ‘Warning: Alligators in Lagoon’? Could the lagoon have been roped off or somehow [had] a barrier to prevent people from entering it?” Balice said.

Disney could have an advantage in that alligators are widespread in Florida, which could create some assumption of risk.

“If I was the defense counsel, certainly that would be one of the arguments I would be making,” Balice said.

Still, he said, the fact that the resort is heavily visited by tourists — Graves’ family was visiting from Nebraska — could mitigate that argument.

“You’re dealing with a high volume of people [from] outside of the area who may not appreciate the nuances of that risk,” Balice said.

(Updated)

If there is a lawsuit, it would likely be for wrongful death, Balice said. Graves relatives could possibly have a claim for negligent infliction of emotional distress as the result of “having to live through the episode of watching their son being taken down by this alligator.”

As far as potential damages, Balice cautioned, “Every jurisdiction is different and it sort of depends on the jury you get … but multimillion dollar I would expect at least.”

http://www.thewrap.com/is-disney-leg...-gator-attack/

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Maybe it is just me, but I think it is a foregone conclusion that Disney will quietly settle this out of court and write a cheque.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Maybe it is just me, but I think it is a foregone conclusion that Disney will quietly settle this out of court and write a cheque.

The smaller the google association between child eaten by alligator and Disney World the better. I'm guessing a big cheque and a non-disclosure clause preventing the family from talking to the media will follow shortly. Honestly, that could work out well for the parents too. I doubt they want to have this story follow them around for the rest of their lives either. Very sad.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

I understand that, so what does him having or not having kids have to do with it?



This is not true at all, you have as much control over a 2 year old as you want.

And it still won't be enough to protect them from all the dangers of the world.

[missdpuck]

I just read that Disney employees say the boy stepped on or nudged the gator accidentally as he was wading. Have only seen that from one source.

That makes sense but we may never know.

Poor little Lane.


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[getbak]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Except this happened smack-dab in the middle of a city with a metro population of 2.2 million people. I don't think everyone knows that there are urban alligators in Florida.

It's more like the equivalent of a kid being snatched by a cougar in Stanley Park. It's a theoretical risk and could happen, but most tourists probably wouldn't expect it.

Disney World is not in the middle of a city. It's not like Disneyland.

The Disney property in Florida is massive (double the size of Manhattan island) and most of it is undeveloped. It's also on the southwest side of Orlando, so most of the city's population is north and east of the Disney property. It's like the Weaselhead relative to Calgary.


Here is the area in question: https://goo.gl/maps/iKo97u5xURk

There's a lot of development east and south of the Grand Floridian, but north and west of the resort is virtually untouched.

Also, the waterways inside the Disney property are all interconnected, and connect up with lakes and rivers outside the property, so it's not tough for gators to find their way in.

[missdpuck]

True. There are a few preserves just north of there as well.
Acres of protected habitat.

Great little town called Mt Dora just north of Disney too . I have to plug it❤️

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[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

I understand that, so what does him having or not having kids have to do with it?



This is not true at all, you have as much control over a 2 year old as you want.

Lol

[Fire of the Phoenix]

It's true. You can just put your 2 year old in a pet carrier to avoid anything bad ever happening. There you go, total control.

[PepsiFree]

If your child isn't on their leash at all times, you are a bad parent. Bonus points if their bum is permanently red from all those well deserved spankings you're giving them.

[Raekwon]

Just to be clear I don't think the parents here were in the wrong in any way, the father was obviously close enough to the child which would have been the only negligence in the two year old being in the water IMO.

My statement has to do be people thinking that if you don't have kids your opinion on certain situations doesn't hold as much value, this only holds true in mental situations. If someone loses a child you might say you don't have kids you don't know what that feels like and that may be true but you don't need to have kids to know what its like to try and control a kid, people without kids do it everyday.

I said you have as much control over a 2yo as you want with want being the keyword. We don't want total control over our kids we watch them very closely and asses situations to keep them out of danger, if your 2yo ran off and got hit by a car that is on the parent as they had the ability to have more control but either choose to too more freedom or underestimated their own abilities to stop the situation. Some parents are more free with their kids and accept that there are always risks and some are overprotective and try and remove all risks but in the end its the parents choice how much control they want. Its not over estimated by people with kids its just that most parents choose less control.

One thing that really needs to stop is judging other parents for how they raise their kid, I don't agree with people choosing to keep their kids in a bubble I believe they needs to do things to learn from but its not for me to judge them. The parents here may not have done what others would have but they certainly were not negligent and people with their 20/20 hindsight that want to call them out in this freak/tragic situation need to step back and try to understand in this day and age their words reach further and cause a lot more pain.

/ramble off

[Galakanokis]

Holy christ! You mean it's that bloody easy? To control a kid. I just have to want it more. We'll gull darn why the #### aren't you writing books. Your next book should be a person with out depression telling how a person with depression should just suck it up and be happy. World fixed.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

What the hell is happening in Orlando? There was this incident, the shootings, and then Christina Grimmie's murder by a crazed fan.

Seriously what the hell is happening there?

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Holy christ! You mean it's that bloody easy? To control a kid. I just have to want it more. We'll gull darn why the #### aren't you writing books. Your next book should be a person with out depression telling how a person with depression should just suck it up and be happy. World fixed.

If you need a book to control a 2 year old child don't have kids.