2 year old boy snatched by alligator at Disney World

[Coach]

Originally Posted by nik-

And then proceeded to go down the "I'm not saying it's the parents ... but they should have done better" road.

Well then, is it Disney's fault? because every post has expressed a need for better signage.

I thought it was a freak tragic accident?

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by blankall

I can't find any current data on attacks, just serious injuries and fatalities. I'd be interested to see the data too.

Not going to derail the thread posting the video, but search for "Safety in Bear Country - Dr. Tom Smith - 2012 NOLS Faculty Summit" on Youtube. Interesting data, even if it's mostly US centric. I keep meaning to read some of his papers.

[Minnie]

Parents, I beg of you, stop blaming and shaming other parents.

35 years ago, a mom shopping in a Sears department store went to go look at lamps, and left her six year old with another group of boys, who were all trying out the new Atari game at a kiosk. That boy’s name was Adam Walsh.

30 years ago, an 18 month old toddler playing in her aunt’s backyard fell into a well. Rescuers worked nonstop for 58 hours, finally freeing “Baby Jessica” from the well.

In both cases a tragedy happened, an unforeseen tragic accident took place which left Adam dead, and a toddler fighting for her life deep underground. But they also has something else in common; they had an entire country of moms and dads supporting the grieving parents.

Let me repeat that, EVERYONE SUPPORTED THE RESCUE EFFORTS WITHOUT BLAME. NO BLAME. None. ZERO.

No questions asked, not one single “Where were the parents?” comment. Just a country of other moms and dads, grandmas and grandpas watching in horror as a set of parents, one of their own, went through the unthinkable. Adam was our son. Jessica was our baby daughter.

THOSE PARENTS WERE US.

Flash forward to 2016, the year of THE PERFECT PARENT.

Yesterday, a two year old boy, splashing in the magical lakefront waters of a Disney Resort, succumbed to the wilds of mother nature. An aggressive alligator scooped him out of the water, right under the watch of his father, who attempted to fight with the alligator to free his baby son. Pure horror. Sheer Terror. Parents who actually had to watch their baby be taken from them, as if they were in some African nature documentary.

A tragic and unforeseeable accident. An accident.

I weep for this mother and father. I am sick with anguish for the pain, agony, misery, and regret pulsating through their viens this very second. And I bet you are too.

But not everyone is.

You see, we now live in a time where accidents are not allowed happen. You heard me. Accidents, of any form, in any way, and at any time, well, they just don’t happen anymore.

Why? Because BLAME and SHAME.

Because we have become a nation of BLAMERS and SHAMERS.

And how are accidents allowed to happen if we can’t blame someone? Surly, they can’t, right? I mean, random acts of nature, unpreventable tragedies, and fateful life changing events that take place in a matter of nanoseconds cannot possibly take place if everyone is being a responsible parent, right? NOPE.

They can’t, because this country and its population of perfect pitchfork carrying mothers and fathers sitting behind keyboards needs to accuse. They NEED TO BLAME, to disparage, to criticize in every damn way and at every damn corner, the parenting of another.

And when do they really get to lick their blaming chops? When a tragic accident happens. That’s when the pouncing is at its freshest, when raw emotion and ignorance collide, and they dig their word claws in, and take hold of whatever grace these grieving mothers and fathers have left in their souls.

And then they tear it out.

Listen to me very clearly perfect parents, VERY CLEARLY.

I’VE HAD ENOUGH.

I’ve had enough of scrolling through comment threads and seeing over and over again questions like “Where were the parents?” and thoughts like, “This is what happens when you don’t watch your kids.”

I have simply HAD ENOUGH.

I have one question for the blaming and shaming moms and dads. You know the ones who immediately blame the parents, the ones who go on the internet and type comments like, “This is nothing but neglect by the parents,” and “They should have known better. Who was watching that little boy?” and my favorite, “I would never let that happen to my kid.”

Here is my question,

Have you ever been to a child’s funeral before?

I have.

The funeral of a child is an event in life that you never, ever want to experience.

Now let me ask you another question.

In the coming week these parents will fly back to their home in Nebraska without one of their children. They will leave a vacation resort, packing up his Buzz Lightyear pajamas and his favorite blanket, and they will make an excruciatingly difficult journey home. A journey that they never in a million years thought they would be making.

They will meet with a funeral director, pick out a tiny casket, a tiny burial suit, and surrounded by family, they will bury their baby boy.

And they will suffer every single day for the rest of their life.

At the funeral for this two year boy who died in front of his parents, can you do me a favor? Can you walk up to the mother and say the words that you just typed out last week? Can you? Can you greet her, hug her, shake the father’s hand and then say, “ Who was watching that little boy? You should have known better. I would never let that happen to MY child.”

Can you do that for me? I mean, you felt those words so deeply in your heart and soul that you typed them for a million people to read. Certainly you can say it straight to the faces of the people you meant it for, right?

Here, let me help you.

Put away your pitchfork for a moment and try this.

To the mother and father who went for a walk on vacation for the last time with their little boy yesterday, I am deeply sorry that you had to experience the worst kind of tragedy possible, an accident. I grieve with you. Your baby was my baby. Your son was my son. I have nothing but love for you, love to help you get though the pain yesterday, today, and for what is gonna seem like a thousand tomorrows. I wrap my thoughts and prayers around your aching heart and soul. May the God of this universe in some miraculous way bring peace to you and your family.

That is what you say. THAT. And just THAT.

Stop the blaming.

Stop the shaming.

In their darkest hours, can we please just LOVE other parents. Please?

~ written by Melissa Fenton

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MattyC

Well then, is it Disney's fault? because every post has expressed a need for better signage.

I thought it was a freak tragic accident?

It is a freak tragic accident. However, if the parents took Disney to court I bet they win.

At minimum I hope Disney updates the signage to explain that this isn't about liability if someone drowns in that water, but that that there are potentially predators in the water.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by nik-

It is a freak tragic accident. However, if the parents took Disney to court I bet they win.

At minimum I hope Disney updates the signage to explain that this isn't about liability if someone drowns in that water, but that that there are potentially predators in the water.

I totally agree.

So, in the context that, even though Disney could have put better signs up, it's a freak tragedy. Could we not also say, that while the parents could have familiarized themselves with the environment before travelling there, it's a freak accident?

[nik-]

We could, but only if we want to be dicks.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by nik-

We could, but only if we want to be dicks.

Aren't they both true? Both things could have helped prevent what happened. Both could have also been done and it still could have happened.

In fact, if the parents had gone through all the sources about the frequency of alligator related deaths that have been posted here and determined the same thing as most people (that it's not significant enough to worry about), wouldn't it have given them an excuse to flat out ignore any sign regardless?

[nik-]

I don't thing anyone suggested that if the parents weren't hyper vigilant helicopter parents on guard at all times while in a family playground that this possibly wouldn't have happened.

It's just that saying that about parent's who just had a tragic rare event take their child away from them makes you a dick.

So the question is, granting the technical correctness of the argument, does one want to be a dick?

Is that enough for you? Or do you want to keep needling away in a desperate desire to be correct about something that's ridiculous to argue so hard for?

[Coach]

I'm not needing to be correct about anything other than the mere holding of the idea that "parents probably could have been more mindful of the dangers of water in Florida" in combination with "Disney needs better signs" and "this is a horrible tragedy" does not mean someone is blaming the parents.

[afc wimbledon]

The parents didn't ignore anything, the sign said 'no swimming' the kid wasn't swimming, he was standing in a foot of water next to his dad on a man made beach put in by the hotel, why in the hell would anyone think wading on a man made beach would be dangerous? the very existence of the beach, put in by the hotel, negates that assumption

Disney didn't want to reduce the attractiveness of its resort by scaring people with 'danger alligators' signs because then they might go to some sea side hotel where you could go for a swim.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The parents didn't ignore anything, the sign said 'no swimming' the kid wasn't swimming, he was standing in a foot of water next to his dad on a man made beach put in by the hotel, why in the hell would anyone think wading on a man made beach would be dangerous? the very existence of the beach, put in by the hotel, negates that assumption

Disney didn't want to reduce the attractiveness of its resort by scaring people with 'danger alligators' signs because then they might go to some sea side hotel where you could go for a swim.

Yeah the second paragraph is the case for sure.

I guess I was just reading through the thread and I saw a lot of the "why would they think about there being gators on Disney's beach?" and "people from a place without much for animal threats wouldn't even think about it" and went...umm it's literally the first thing that would enter my mind. because it's a lagoon. In Florida. Maybe that's my own fear of the unknowns of water, but when you hear stories of alligators in everything from bath tubs to the everglades, yeah it seems reasonable to me to assume there's gators in there.

And that goes for Disney too. They obviously hedged their bets that there would be no or minimal gators in their man-made lagoon in Florida. Like, come on.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I completely agree and have said as such multiple times. I just think there are people here being disingenuous about what that sign would mean to them in a place like Florida.

"Keep out of water" sign on a Calgary Golf Course is a lame attempt to keep people from swimming for balls. On a course in Florida it probably means something completely different.

I'm not saying that the parents are at fault for not acknowledging the sign and recognizing its danger. But I don't think it's crazy to also say "Well, yeah, it's Florida, there are dangerous things in the water."

It's a tragedy in every way shape and form, but that doesn't mean there weren't ways to prevent it. One of those ways would be Disney posting more appropriate signs. Another way would have been the parents obeying the sign that was already there. I don't think that's putting blame on them, it's just a reality.



LOL is it? Most of people's problem in here is that the risk of an alligator attack isn't even statistically relevant enough to think about. I'm guessing the likelihood of stepping on a mine in a minefield is much greater, and thus would warrant a much harsher sign.

The sign said "No Swimming" not do not enter the water.

Where I fundamentally disagree with you is your fear propagation about nature. Bears, Cougars, sharks, wolves etc all the big fear animals are put more at risk because of people's irrational fears. To state Florida water is arbitrarily dangerous without any data to back up that alligator fatalities are significant is disingenuous even when accompanied by your statement its not the parents fault.

[EldrickOnIce]

There is, in my mind, a distinct difference.
Disney is negligent for not taking appropriate measures to insure the safety of their guests.
The parents (father) showed an innocent and understandable lack of judgement that resulted in a horrible tragedy, and one they will quite possibly blame themselves for being so 'stupid' every single day for the rest of their lives (i know I would), but are absolutely not negligent.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm not needing to be correct about anything other than the mere holding of the idea that "parents probably could have been more mindful of the dangers of water in Florida" in combination with "Disney needs better signs" and "this is a horrible tragedy" does not mean someone is blaming the parents.

To be honest, I can't even agree with you on that one. Like I mentioned earlier, "no swimming" takes on a totally different connotation than "stay away from the water". The boy wasn't swimming, so they didn't ignore the signs.

If I'm at that resort, I expect to be safe, and any dangers to be CLEARLY pointed out to me. I'm not in the wilderness, I'm in a man made resort with landscaped beaches with freaking lounge chairs for tourists. I honestly would not have expected alligators in the water if there were no signs that warned of it, and I don't think that's an unrealistic assumption.

This tragedy is totally on Disney if we need to assign any blame, and none on the parents whatsoever IMO.

[V]

Originally Posted by MattyC

I'm not needing to be correct about anything other than the mere holding of the idea that "parents probably could have been more mindful of the dangers of water in Florida" in combination with "Disney needs better signs" and "this is a horrible tragedy" does not mean someone is blaming the parents.

How many kids do you have?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

There is, in my mind, a distinct difference.
Disney is negligent for not taking appropriate measures to insure the safety of their guests.
The parents (father) showed an innocent and understandable lack of judgement that resulted in a horrible tragedy, and one they will quite possibly blame themselves for being so 'stupid' every single day for the rest of their lives. I know I would.

Can you describe there lack of judgement here? Because I can't see anything that they did wrong here. They even followed the No Swimming sign. And to me that means you are arguing that if he had been in a slightly different location there wouldn't have been an attack.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by V

How many kids do you have?

This has to do with what exactly?

[V]

Does that question really seem off topic to you?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by GGG

Can you describe there lack of judgement here? Because I can't see anything that they did wrong here. They even followed the No Swimming sign. And to me that means you are arguing that if he had been in a slightly different location there wouldn't have been an attack.

I worded that wrong - or didn't describe my thoughts properly. They will feel like they showed bad judgement. Will think think should have known better. Any parent will.
My point was supposed to be that Disney is negligent, they are not.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

This has to do with what exactly?

Has to do with the comment about the parents could have been more mindful.