Flames GM kept busy while in Russia at Worlds

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Well you do have that portion of this site that was freaking out that a new coach had not been hired because Treliving was working in Russia. This article should give them some relief to know he was still working hard at making the flames better even though he was working for hockey Canada for a month and a half

Its a slow news day so I will be argumentative. The article didn't state he was working hard. It merely quoted Treliving as telling us he was working hard.

Personally I'm not worried about how hard our GM is working or what he communicates to the media and fans. The job is 100% about results. Seems like he is doing OK so far in that department with some big decisions ahead.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Itse

I think most would agree that it was Feasters team that made the playoffs.

Fire of the Phoenix was right on, Flames don't make the playoffs in 2015 without Jonas Hiller in net, who happened to be a Treliving signing. It was also Hiller's play that year that makes me willing to excuse Treliving for not trading a first round pick for Talbot or Jones. The goalies were adequate the year before, there was no way to predict that they would implode the year after. Treliving also made the team tougher with Engelland and Bollig, which many on this board identified as a serious issue of the Feaster teams, teams that were continually pushed around and had zero push back. Why did the Flames beat the Canucks in the first round? If you ask Canuck fans, it was because the Canucks were physically dominated by a tougher and more physical team thanks to players like Ferland, Engelland, Bollig.

For those of you who like to blame Treliving for the 3 headed goalie monster, keep in mind that Ramo was Hartley's favourite, and he likely pushed to have him brought back even though Hiller and Ortio were already under contract. You won't hear Treliving say it was Hartley who wanted Ramo, but the evidence suggests that to be true.

Again, I don't think there is enough blame for Hartley for the way the goalies were handled. It's his job as coach to get the best out of the players. It's his job to manage their egos.

Treliving's job is to put the personnel in place. Now he didn't give Hartley a Stanley Cup contending team to coach, but he did give him at the very least, a better team on paper than he did the year before. I challenge any of the Treliving haters to tell me the 2015/2016 team was not a better team on paper than the 2014/2015 team.

[Locke]

Yes...but was he working harder than Teachers? Even Russian Teachers?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Its a slow news day so I will be argumentative. The article didn't state he was working hard. It merely quoted Treliving as telling us he was working hard.

Personally I'm not worried about how hard our GM is working or what he communicates to the media and fans. The job is 100% about results. Seems like he is doing OK so far in that department with some big decisions ahead.

Unless Treliving is writing his life story and has a ghost wittier following him around then the only option is to take him for his word that he has been busy with all things Calgary Flames while in Russia.


I agree fully that the next few months are huge for his job and long term future with the organization. As I mentioned earlier I do think the organization is ready to trqnsition away from the rebuilding term and getting closer to contending. Getting the right coach, a good goalie, and adding some talent up front are 3 things that I feel need to be done to move forward.

If the results are Randy Carlyle, 5 year $25M for Reimer, and signing Hudler and trading for Lupul then que the Fat lady because his time is short. I don't think that happens but I sure as hell excited to see what he does

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yes...but was he working harder than Teachers? Even Russian Teachers?

Nobody works harder than teachers

[Calgary4LIfe]

I will never understand why some posters feel the need to blame Treliving and/or Hartley for the '3 goalie situation'.

Hiller obviously fell out of favor late in the season, and in the playoffs, was replaced with Ramo. We all heard the rumors about Hiller being traded to SJ in the off-season, but then SJ makes that trade with Boston for Jones.

We heard the rumors of Treliving being in on every goaltender that moved this past off-season as well.

Now, would you people that are complaining about the 3 goalie monster have felt better with a tandem of Hiller and Ortio? I sure as heck wouldn't. Ramo was the best of the bunch and saved the Flames from a complete embarrassment. They would have been worse than the Oilers.

As for Hartley's part in mismanaging the situation - what is he supposed to do? He was looking for one of the 3 goalies to step up, and they never did. As for Ortio not getting the nod earlier, perhaps people missed that Ortio was by far the worst goalie in practices - he was never deserving of his starts, and he was never able to grab hold of what should have been the EASIEST starter's position in the entire NHL at the time.

Treliving didn't screw up. Hartley didn't screw up. 3 goalies who couldn't get their game going to save their lives screwed up. One is for sure playing in Europe. Another rebounded quite nicely during the season (finally) but got injured, and his NHL career is very much in limbo (which I feel bad about, and hope he finds a job somewhere after he heals-up), and the other may very well be unsigned and look for work in the AHL or go back to the Finnish league - even when he rebounded, his numbers weren't at all impressive nor did he steal a single game.

Treliving brought back exactly the 'middle of the pack' goaltending the Flames experienced the playoff season after being unable to upgrade the position. People blame him. Hartley treated the goalies exactly like he treated them the prior year (in which he was lauded as some kind of a goalie whisperer). People blame him.

I think the 3 goalies are to blame, and only one out of the three eventually stepped-up after an AHL demotion and apparently a lot of work with Sigalet.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by 868904

Fire of the Phoenix was right on, Flames don't make the playoffs in 2015 without Jonas Hiller in net, who happened to be a Treliving signing. It was also Hiller's play that year that makes me willing to excuse Treliving for not trading a first round pick for Talbot or Jones. The goalies were adequate the year before, there was no way to predict that they would implode the year after. Treliving also made the team tougher with Engelland and Bollig, which many on this board identified as a serious issue of the Feaster teams, teams that were continually pushed around and had zero push back. Why did the Flames beat the Canucks in the first round? If you ask Canuck fans, it was because the Canucks were physically dominated by a tougher and more physical team thanks to players like Ferland, Engelland, Bollig.

For those of you who like to blame Treliving for the 3 headed goalie monster, keep in mind that Ramo was Hartley's favourite, and he likely pushed to have him brought back even though Hiller and Ortio were already under contract. You won't hear Treliving say it was Hartley who wanted Ramo, but the evidence suggests that to be true.

Again, I don't think there is enough blame for Hartley for the way the goalies were handled. It's his job as coach to get the best out of the players. It's his job to manage their egos.

Treliving's job is to put the personnel in place. Now he didn't give Hartley a Stanley Cup contending team to coach, but he did give him at the very least, a better team on paper than he did the year before. I challenge any of the Treliving haters to tell me the 2015/2016 team was not a better team on paper than the 2014/2015 team.

Why should Treliving get credit for the unlikely playoff run in 14/15 if he doesn't take the blame for the unlikely meltdown of 15/16? (I don't think we should have been that bad this season.) For me it has to be clearly both or neither. (And clearly Treliving has more to do with the 15/16 team than the 14/15 team.)

Let's make this clear: I'm mostly in the "neither" camp. In my books it was mostly Feasters team that made the playoffs, with the coach Feaster picked, and I don't think our meltdown this season had much to do with Treliving either. Which is why I kind of agree that the love he gets here seems somewhat excessive. Not because I hate Treliving, but because I don't think the results are in yet. (Then again there's no reason why fans should be reasonable, so I don't really mind. It's just not a feeling I share.)

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

As for Hartley's part in mismanaging the situation - what is he supposed to do?

Pick a starter. Pick a backup. Send the third guy down. It's what you're supposed to do in training camp. So his options sucked and it was a tough choice. Too bad. It's his job to sometimes make tough choices. Not making those choices just made the situation worse.

Both Rämö and Ortio played their best when they had some job security. This should not have come as a surprise, because it's how most teams in the NHL operate. Either you have a clear #1, or you go with 1A/1B.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Itse

Pick a starter. Pick a backup. Send the third guy down.

The GM decides whom to send down, not the coach. The GM didn't want to expose that third guy on waivers at the start of the season, because he'd looked pretty solid in preseason games and might well have been claimed. Only after he crapped the bed in a couple of regular-season starts was it safe to demote him, and this was duly done.

Hartley had no choice in the matter.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Itse

Pick a starter. Pick a backup. Send the third guy down. It's what you're supposed to do in training camp. So his options sucked and it was a tough choice. Too bad. It's his job to sometimes make tough choices. Not making those choices just made the situation worse.

Pick a starter. Pick a backup. Lose Ortio to waivers.

Easy peasy.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Husky

That mistake arguably cost the Flames a full season and a potential playoff spot. Pretty huge mistake.

So you just assume that any effort made to improve goaltending didn't exist because he never landed a goalie last summer? Rumors had the Flames in on multiple goalies prior to July 1st and it was said he didn't like the cost. As a last option he re-signed Ramo. I don't think you can fault Treliving for that. Let's also not forget that while the goaltendingwas bad, si was the team defense, any goalie we got probably wouldn't have performed as well here as they did elsewhere Also the 3 goalie situation was only for about a month, so I doubt it had the impact some individuals make it seem like.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Pick a starter. Pick a backup. Lose Ortio to waivers.

Easy peasy.

Or send Hiller down. Just as easy.

Giving a coach 3 goalies has to mess up practices and team dynamics.

If protecting the asset is an organizational priority, nut up and give a veteran a tough message.

Yes, the three headed monster is absolutely on BT

I don't dislike the guy, just don't think that he has proven anything yet.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

So you just assume that any effort made to improve goaltending didn't exist because he never landed a goalie last summer? Rumors had the Flames in on multiple goalies prior to July 1st and it was said he didn't like the cost. As a last option he re-signed Ramo. I don't think you can fault Treliving for that. Let's also not forget that while the goaltendingwas bad, si was the team defense, any goalie we got probably wouldn't have performed as well here as they did elsewhere Also the 3 goalie situation was only for about a month, so I doubt it had the impact some individuals make it seem like.

Better part of 2 months - Nov 26 Ortio cleared waivers and was assigned to Stockton

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Better part of 2 months - Nov 26 Ortio cleared waivers and was assigned to Stockton

If you are going to be complaining at least get your facts straight.

October 22nd, the Flames demoted Karri Ramo after clearing waivers; ending the 3 goalie situation. He was recalled after 1 relief appearance with Stockton due to an injury to Hiller. Due to his improved play and Ortio playing poorly Ortio was waived and demoted following Hiller's return.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Right, slipped my mind

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Or send Hiller down. Just as easy.

Giving a coach 3 goalies has to mess up practices and team dynamics.

If protecting the asset is an organizational priority, nut up and give a veteran a tough message.

Yes, the three headed monster is absolutely on BT

I don't dislike the guy, just don't think that he has proven anything yet.

Some of you talk like having 3 goalies is some kind of toxic no-no that is an instant recipe for disaster.

Yes, it is not optimal, but it's not like it's never happened. Teams have survived it before.

Treliving is responsible for starting the season with 3 goalies. But it's the goalies that are responsible for their bad play. And Hartley is responsible for handling the situation poorly.

Suggesting that Treliving is responsible for a failed season is beyond hyperbole and is flat out wrong.

[Vulcan]

I don't give Treliving credit for making the playoffs or blame for missing them other than he brought some stable leadership to the team. As for the team stumbling out of the gate last season, it was a combination of the three goalies failing and the team not playing as well as they could. You can start with Giordano taking a while to get his game in sync and the injury to Brodie. Another aspect I think is that other teams learned how to counteract the Flames game plan and Hartley didn't adjust. Maybe he didn't have the players to adjust but that's an argument between Hartley and Treliving. There wasn't the confidence and belief that the team had the previous season either with their big come backs.

The clock had hit midnight and Hartley wasn't the prince who could save it. Treliving gets his own man and he'll turn over every corner in his search. I wouldn't expect immediate positive results other than the team will probably play a more traditional style.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Blaming BT for missing the playoffs is funny considering it was year three of a rebuild. Maybe some of you should be happy for last year's suprise success and not hold it against the GM when the rebuild is progressing nicely overall.

When Burke was hired I told myself I would be happy if we made the playoffs by 2018. That seemed reasonable to me given the state of the team at the time. How some of you can actually hold the success of 2015 against BT is beyond me.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I don't give Treliving credit for making the playoffs or blame for missing them other than he brought some stable leadership to the team. As for the team stumbling out of the gate last season, it was a combination of the three goalies failing and the team not playing as well as they could. You can start with Giordano taking a while to get his game in sync and the injury to Brodie. Another aspect I think is that other teams learned how to counteract the Flames game plan and Hartley didn't adjust. Maybe he didn't have the players to adjust but that's an argument between Hartley and Treliving. There wasn't the confidence and belief that the team had the previous season either with their big come backs.

The clock had hit midnight and Hartley wasn't the prince who could save it. Treliving gets his own man and he'll turn over every corner in his search. I wouldn't expect immediate positive results other than the team will probably play a more traditional style.

These are pretty much my thoughts. As far as the "lost season," I would add that many are quick to forget how truly terrible Dougie Hamilton played in the month of Oct and for much of Nov. He was a disaster in his efforts to adjust to his second NHL team in his young career, and the demonstrable positive change in his game which occurred over the course of the season only served to reinforce how much his amazingly horrible play affected the team in the early part of the year.

#1/2 defenseman Giordano was recovering from injury. The Flames new #2/3 defenseman was undergoing the biggest adjustment of his career. The team was missing its #1/2 defenseman and best player for the first six weeks. All three of the goalies looked like they were mired in a permanent hangover. And how much of this is Treliving's doing?

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Blaming BT for missing the playoffs is funny considering it was year three of a rebuild. Maybe some of you should be happy for last year's suprise success and not hold it against the GM when the rebuild is progressing nicely overall.

When Burke was hired I told myself I would be happy if we made the playoffs by 2018. That seemed reasonable to me given the state of the team at the time. How some of you can actually hold the success of 2015 against BT is beyond me.

Not blaming BT for anything but I'm not convinced it should take 5 years to get back to the playoffs in a salary cap league. 8 of 14 teams make it in the west.

His two big acquisitions last year, Hamilton and Frolik played well in stretches but overall I would say their impact on the team was disappointing. I don't believe that was BT's fault. There will be growing pains with a new coach but it's fair to expect improvement and hopefully a playoff spot.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Its a slow news day so I will be argumentative. The article didn't state he was working hard. It merely quoted Treliving as telling us he was working hard.

Really hard to take your opinions seriously with how often you do this. You start arguing something and in a different thread on a different day say something indicative that you believe the complete opposite. Seems really pointless.