Alberta students to define their own gender

[polak]

Originally Posted by rubecube

"There's not historical precedent for this, and there doesn't seem to be any present signs of an epidemic, so obviously that means there's going to be a major problem on our hands in the future."

Real sound logic there.

The logic is that I don't think this will work for sports. At all.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by polak

The logic is that I don't think this will work for sports. At all.

Who cares about highschool sports?

[polak]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Who cares about highschool sports?

Lots of high school kids?

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by Vox

How are you going to stop it? To think abuse won't happen is naïve, though perhaps idealistically noble. Do you really think teachers are going to be equipped to stop this?

It would be so hard for a child's school ID to say M or F. The designer would have to spend a whole year changing the template...

Originally Posted by Vox

Most people are sensitive to ANY child that is in pain, so yes I think we need to find ways to stop these children from suffering and high rates of suicide. 50% is appalling.

It is appalling. This is a step in the right direction.

Originally Posted by Vox

Is ignoring traditional gender roles really the answer. It seems to me that we're bordering on pretending there are no gender differences, which is just not the case.

Gender roles are not being ignored. They're are simply allowing those who identify as male to be male and allowing those who identify as female to be female. No one is forcing anyone to switch. That's the whole point. In some schools in the United States children are forced into roles based soley on their genitals. This is undeniably wrong.

There is no mandate for automatic gender role reversal so no one will be forced to wear a label that does not define their identity as they would.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by rubecube

That's not it at all actually, but thanks for coming out. The idea is that someone shouldn't be denied the ability to participate in sports or be made to stand out in a way that makes them the target of bullying/assault just because they don't identify with the genitals they were born with.

They may not identify mentally with their genitals, but biologically they are still the gender they were born, and will have the physical advantages of men in cases where men want to play in women's leagues.

I am 100% for equality, as long as it is actually equal. Allowing biological men to compete as women in competitive sports, is the very definition of inequality. It's like entering a 1000cc motorcycle in a 600cc race. "But my Honda CBR 1000 identifies as a 600" is not a valid argument. In many instances the men will be vastly superior physically. In instances where they are just good enough to make it on the women's teams, they would be highly unlikely to have made it, had they been born a woman, and are robbing a genetic female of a roster spot. It's a stacked deck, and is unfair to the biological women in any instance.

I think a better solution is to have a trans-gendered league for whatever sport it is, where gender does not matter at all, if this is becoming such an enormous issue. Problem solved.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by polak

The logic is that I don't think this will work for sports. At all.

I don't think you know the difference between your argument and your logic.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

that's kind of the point I'm getting at, there is going to be and almost has to be a double standard applied to Transgendered competing in competitive and elite level sports.

Female to male in male sports will be ok because of physiology

Male to female in female sports will be more strictly regulated for the same reasons.

Right, and it looks like the IOC has made it's recommendations that can be followed by other sport bodies. So I'm not sure there is need for a big debate about it. People more knowledgeable on the subject have looked at it and made decisions on how to handle it. Voila!

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Do you have the short-term memory of a hamster or something? I said you called the government's stance intolerant, you asked where and I pointed out where. So did you or did you not call the government's stance, which is that school bathrooms and sports teams should be more inclusive to trans children, intolerant?

So, you feel you can insult me? OK then. My memory is fine so far. You have a reading comprehension of an idiot, though. Twice, you've quoted my post about my general view on totalitarian approach to an argument and you failed to comprehend it. Next, you have connected that post to something in your head that I didn't and then accused me of that connection. See, rubecube, you are the epitome of a leftist demagogue.

[polak]

The argument in favor of transgendered people in sports being allowed to compete in the gender they identify with versus the gender they were born with is seriously "special snowflake" territory.

Why can't the rule simply be, you play on the side of whatever gender you were born with and if you don't like it then you don't get to play?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by polak

Lots of high school kids?

Well here's what the governing body for highschool athletics thinks:

B. Student-Athlete Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity Policy
ASAA prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, gender
identity, gender expression, which includes any individuals who identify
as or are perceived as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual,
two-spirit, queer or questioning. In order to comply with human rights
obligations and uphold the principles of equity and inclusion, ASAA
maintains the following policy to facilitate and encourage the participation
of all students, staff, coaches, managers, trainers and any other persons
associated with high school sport to ensure all members of our diverse
communities are welcomed, respected, accepted and supported in all
aspects of their athletic endeavours. This policy covers participation at
ASAA Zone and Provincial competitions and other activities.

The ASAA recognizes the implementation of this policy will require the
collaboration of all parties involved. ASAA will provide the necessary
supports to all community members and will help to raise awareness about
sexual orientation and gender identity-related issues. These guiding
supports and principles include but are not limited to the Canadian
Charter of Rights and Freedoms, Alberta Human Rights Act and Alberta
School Act.

The Assocation believes that all students, regardless of sexual orientation,
gender identity and gender expression, should have the opportunity to
participate in interscholastic athletic activities in a safe, respectful,
inclusive and non-judgmental environment.

1. Any student, staff, coach, manager, trainer or other persons who identify
as or are perceived as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual,
two-spirit, queer or questioning may participate fully and safely in sexseperated sport activities in accordance with their lived gender identity.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by polak

I don't think any one is waiting to do it. That doesn't mean it's not going to happen. At some point in the near future there will be a precedent set with this issue and it's going to be messy.

Potentially having a few less transgender people commit suicides > some sports scandal.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

So, you feel you can insult me? OK then. My memory is fine so far. You have a reading comprehension of an idiot, though. Twice, you've quoted my post about my general view on totalitarian approach to an argument and you failed to comprehend it. Next, you have connected that post to something in your head that I didn't and then accused me of that connection. See, rubecube, you are the epitome of a leftist demagogue.

You called the government aggressively intolerant. Those were your words, not mine. What exactly am I failing to comprehend?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by polak

The argument in favor of transgendered people in sports being allowed to compete in the gender they identify with versus the gender they were born with is seriously "special snowflake" territory.

Why can't the rule simply be, you play on the side of whatever gender you were born with and if you don't like it then you don't get to play?

Because that's unconstitutional.

Jesus.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Where did this competitive sports talk come from, was that part anything until polak misunderstood things?

It's not part of anything the original post covers.

[2Stonedbirds]

You know how you fix the problem so both sides win and come out happy on this?

Remove all the public washrooms that are built for use by more than one person.

Build a row of individual washrooms down the hallway. Inside is a toilet and a sink. On the front is a sign that says "washroom" and that's it.

Need to pinch one off? Lock the door behind you, it's all yours and there's no gender label.

Fill your boots, everyone wins.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by polak

The argument in favor of transgendered people in sports being allowed to compete in the gender they identify with versus the gender they were born with is seriously "special snowflake" territory.

Why can't the rule simply be, you play on the side of whatever gender you were born with and if you don't like it then you don't get to play?

Yes, trying to prevent suicides and assaults is "special snowflake" territory. God forbid we treat people humanely.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by pylon

I think a better solution is to have a trans-gendered league for whatever sport it is, where gender does not matter at all, if this is becoming such an enormous issue. Problem solved.

No need for that, there are plenty of co-ed leagues they could fit in, if you want to go that route.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by rubecube

You called the government aggressively intolerant. Those were your words, not mine. What exactly am I failing to comprehend?

Just follow the posts led to that and you will see that it was not in relation or response to the transgender argument but to the connection between intolerance and totalitarianism comments.

Give respect and you shall receive respect.

[polak]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Where did this competitive sports talk come from, was that part anything until polak misunderstood things?

It's not part of anything the original post covers.

Alberta students play sports. This is something that will come up at some point.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yes, trying to prevent suicides and assaults is "special snowflake" territory. God forbid we treat people humanely.

It's special snowflake cause you're changing the entire structure of competitive sports across the world so that a transgendered person can compete with whatever gender they identify with instead of what they are born with, despite the very real unfair playing field that creates. No one is arguing that they should not allowed be to play, just that they should play with others who are in the same biological playing field as them.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by polak

The argument in favor of transgendered people in sports being allowed to compete in the gender they identify with versus the gender they were born with is seriously "special snowflake" territory.

Why can't the rule simply be, you play on the side of whatever gender you were born with and if you don't like it then you don't get to play?

Shaming people to fit into a category they do not identify with is exactly what I was referring to when I said 20th century thinking.

It's appalling that you are not willing to be inclusive and accepting which we all know is one of the causes of depression. That is what Bell Let's Talk day is supposed to be about - letting people with mental illness, like depression, know that they are not going to be shunned or stigmatized.

It seems like that message has failed you.