Alberta students to define their own gender

[Vox]

I'm surprised I haven't found this on the forum yet, but maybe I missing something. Just saw a series of articles and a government brief stating that students in Alberta schools may now pick the gender of washroom they want to use, boys can play on girls sports teams, and more. And apparently I am no longer allowed to be referred to as my daughters Father, nor can my wife be her Mother, and our daughter may not be referred to as a girl. Gender neutral terms must be used.

I know I sleep in and miss a lot of the memos, but this ones seems a little bigger than normal to me. Anyone else seenthis?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...ines-1.3402300

1. Pick your own pronoun

2. Play for the boys or girls team

3. Use male or female washrooms, or neither

4. Pick the change room you prefer

5. Establish gay-straight alliances

I sort of feel like I'm being punked.

[PepsiFree]

All makes sense to me.

[Daradon]

I like it.

I could probably explain away any specific concerns you have. But without knowing what they are, it'd be a long post.

Simply put' no 'normally defined' person is going to sign up for the opposite thing. Though parties like to argue the ridiculous (like Republicans saying guys will choose the girls washroom to perve) it doesn't work like that. These rules are in place to help those in need. No one who is not in need is going to put themselves through what these people are going through. It's not worth it for the lulz.

Would you climb Mt. Everest to make a joke or peer at boobies? Probably not.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I'm all for equality and inclusion but some of that stuff is...interesting and seems to fit right into the every child is special narrative.

Students who do not feel comfortable in a group setting should also be given the option for "independent study to earn physical education credits," the document advises.

Can I not be part of a setting with grades? Seems too judgemental. Also I need a setting free of authority. And pants. Thankfully this government will ensure if the school cannot meet my needs I will be given a private judgement free, authority free pants less area. And God help them if it isn't accessible and there aren't enough for everyone.

I'm afraid most of these measures will be abused and will result in more headaches than they fix.

[afc wimbledon]

Politically stupid, otherwise meaningless

[Vox]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I like it.

I could probably explain away any specific concerns you have. But without knowing what they are, it'd be a long post.

Simply put' no 'normally defined' person is going to sign up for the opposite thing. Though parties like to argue the ridiculous (like Republicans saying guys will choose the girls washroom to perve) it doesn't work like that. These rules are in place to help those in need. No one who is not in need is going to put themselves through what these people are going through. It's not worth it for the lulz.

Would you climb Mt. Everest to make a joke or peer at boobies? Probably not.

Disagree with some of this. How are you going to stop a straight boy from wandering into the girls change room for kicks? Don't see how you are going to stop that. Why can't my daughter be labelled as female? She is. She is not even ashamed of it. Why can't I be referred to as my children's Father? I have no problem, and even enjoy, be known that way.

How big a problem is really being solved vs how much potential problem is being created. I have lots of gays friends, had a gay room mate for a while, not a single one of them has every had a problem using the mens washroom.

I even read an article, though I can't find it again, stating that this applied to families as well, so I should be able to take my daughter into the ladies room. Yeah, I have a problem with that.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I like it.

I could probably explain away any specific concerns you have. But without knowing what they are, it'd be a long post.

Simply put' no 'normally defined' person is going to sign up for the opposite thing. Though parties like to argue the ridiculous (like Republicans saying guys will choose the girls washroom to perve) it doesn't work like that. These rules are in place to help those in need. No one who is not in need is going to put themselves through what these people are going through. It's not worth it for the lulz.

Would you climb Mt. Everest to make a joke or peer at boobies? Probably not.

There is no way you'd say that if you'd read the article. Kids get to pick their own names. They get to dictate what pronouns are used. Schools need to provide private washrooms and change rooms. Getting to skip group activities if they want. Zero chance some kid isn't demanding he be called ze bill bumface while demanding he be able to enjoy his private washroom for unlimited sessions while skipping all group activities.

Oh yeah no way high school kids would ever abuse those privileges. Sounds exactly like climbing mt Everest.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

There is no way you'd say that if you'd read the article. Kids get to pick their own names. They get to dictate what pronouns are used. Schools need to provide private washrooms and change rooms. Getting to skip group activities if they want.

Oh yeah no way high school kids would ever abuse those privileges. Sounds exactly like climbing mt Everest.

Agreed. And do I really have to learn a bunch of new pronouns - Ze, Zir, hir, Mx, to address a teacher. And figure out how to use them? Really? Kind of complex to a simple mind like me.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Vox

Disagree with some of this. How are you going to stop a straight boy from wandering into the girls change room for kicks? Don't see how you are going to stop that. Why can't my daughter be labelled as female? She is. She is not even ashamed of it. Why can't I be referred to as my children's Father? I have no problem, and even enjoy, be known that way.

How big a problem is really being solved vs how much potential problem is being created. I have lots of gays friends, had a gay room mate for a while, not a single one of them has every had a problem using the mens washroom.

I even read an article, though I can't find it again, stating that this applied to families as well, so I should be able to take my daughter into the ladies room. Yeah, I have a problem with that.

Yeah, you're missing the point entirely.

Your daughter can be labelled as female
You can be referred to as her father.
Anyone can be labelled as whatever they want to be.

This is not free range for boys to enter the girls washroom, this is for a transgender person who if they choose to be labelled as female, may use the bathroom catered to that gender. This isn't so a boy can roll into the girls washroom and say "I feel like a girl today! Lol!"

This is also not about gay men using the men's washroom. This has little to do with sexuality and everything to do with gender. Completely different subjects.

[CaptainCrunch]

The only one that I would have real arguments against are number 2.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Yeah, you're missing the point entirely.

Your daughter can be labelled as female
You can be referred to as her father.
Anyone can be labelled as whatever they want to be.

This is not free range for boys to enter the girls washroom, this is for a transgender person who if they choose to be labelled as female, may use the bathroom catered to that gender. This isn't so a boy can roll into the girls washroom and say "I feel like a girl today! Lol!"

This is also not about gay men using the men's washroom. This has little to do with sexuality and everything to do with gender. Completely different subjects.

I'd love to be missing the point entirely, but that perspective is somewhat simplistic, and I don't think it's a fair comment. So how are you going to stop someone from walking into the girls washroom and saying I feel like a girl today? And how uncomfortable are you going to make young girls (or possibly boys in the reverse situation) when boys elect to use their change room.

This seems to be a big initiative to cater to a group that is estimated to account for 0.3% of the population from what I can find. Simpler ways, such as offering a special washroom for a transgendered kid or anyone else to use seems easier than offering as special washroom for a kid that is offended by a differently sexed kid in their washroom and asking them to use it.

Yes, I fully expect this to get abused at a small rate at least, and make a lot of people uncomfortable.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The only one that I would have real arguments against are number 2.

I agree with you. That one initially struck me the most. If a girl is good enough to make a men's team there is a case to be made that she is allowed to play. But like it or not, equality or not, men (boys) are physically stronger than girls. How does the reverse situation work with a boy on a girls team?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Vox

This seems to be a big initiative to cater to a group that is estimated to account for 0.3% of the population from what I can find. Simpler ways, such as offering a special washroom for a transgendered kid or anyone else to use seems easier than offering as special washroom for a kid that is offended by a differently sexed kid in their washroom and asking them to use it.

A big initiative, yes. Don't discount the small percentage of our population like you appear to be doing in your post. The point is to integrate transgendered youth into society as efficiently as possible so they hopefully stop attempting suicide at a >50% rate.

The numbers are staggering. It's all annoying and simple to brush off if you have straight children (or even gay for that matter) but it becomes a living hell for parents who do have transgendered kids.

Could you imagine if there was more than a 50% chance that your daughter was going to attempt to take her life because of how she's treated by society?

[RougeUnderoos]

Wow. I really hope these guidelines aren't going to be applied as willy-nilly as some people here seem to think they will be.

Like, if a teenage boy just decides "hey, today I'm going to saunter into the girl's changeroom and have a look-see", I hope there are some repercussions.

Because of course there will be.

To think otherwise is (and this is a gender-neutral term) stupid.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

We're going so far off the progressive deep-end that we've created a negative feedback cycle among normally progressive people. That's how I feel about this, and in extension the European refugee crisis.

I think this is fine at the elementary level, but is entirely pointless when it comes to post-pubescent people and would serve no other purpose than to make life easier for voyeurs.

If the problem is one of bullying, then the washrooms and the changing rooms aren't the problem.

If the problem isn't bullying, then what is it?

[jayswin]

Ha, always love your posts Rouge. Excellent.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

Like, if a teenage boy just decides "hey, today I'm going to saunter into the girl's changeroom and have a look-see", I hope there are some repercussions.

How are you going to stop it? To think abuse won't happen is naïve, though perhaps idealistically noble. Do you really think teachers are going to be equipped to stop this?

Most people are sensitive to ANY child that is in pain, so yes I think we need to find ways to stop these children from suffering and high rates of suicide. 50% is appalling. Is ignoring traditional gender roles really the answer. It seems to me that we're bordering on pretending there are no gender differences, which is just not the case.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Vox

Disagree with some of this. How are you going to stop a straight boy from wandering into the girls change room for kicks? Don't see how you are going to stop that. Why can't my daughter be labelled as female? She is. She is not even ashamed of it. Why can't I be referred to as my children's Father? I have no problem, and even enjoy, be known that way.

How big a problem is really being solved vs how much potential problem is being created. I have lots of gays friends, had a gay room mate for a while, not a single one of them has every had a problem using the mens washroom.

I even read an article, though I can't find it again, stating that this applied to families as well, so I should be able to take my daughter into the ladies room. Yeah, I have a problem with that.

Cause in making that choice, he'd have to do it forever. Or he'd be found out to be the pervy fraud he was.

There are discipline measures (not to mention federal laws) for thosr who might use it to their'benefit'.

No boy is going to go through the process of affirming one way, only to go back.

It's the same with adult concerns.

[Roast Beef]

This is really a non issue for most students. It is huge for the most affected students though. Like Rouge said this isn't a free for all. It's a much needed thing that hopefully allows kids to be who they are.

[craigwd]

Originally Posted by Vox

I agree with you. That one initially struck me the most. If a girl is good enough to make a men's team there is a case to be made that she is allowed to play. But like it or not, equality or not, men (boys) are physically stronger than girls. How does the reverse situation work with a boy on a girls team?

Exactly the same way. If someone identifies as a female, she would be welcomed onto the girls team. Simple as that.

Do you honestly think some guy is going to be shallow enough to trick his way onto a team by pretending his trans, just so he can win a scoring race?

That he's going to play some long-con to get an elusive championship. No.

This is 2016, let 20th century thinking stay in the past.

It is important to be inclusive to all and to respect the choices and lives of everyone; especially those young people who are just starting to discover themselves.

On Bell Lets Talk day, no less, where we are supposed to be more understanding of the root causes of depression, mental illness and stigmas I don't understand how people can still be so narrow-minded.