Mass Shooting at Montreal College

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by jar_e

Look I'm all up for living and learning from situations, but for crying out loud, how can't you be angry at a person like this?

If someone came in, shot at YOUR kid would you be mad than?

I am no way an expert in anything about society or making the world a better place, but for pete's sake have some sympathy towards the victims and stop trying to downplay the shooters actions.

This guy shot 20 people. 20 innocent people.

If someone picked on your kid every day of his life through school to the point where your kid came home crying all the time, wouldn't you be ****ed at that? And if your kid already had ADHD or some other mental illness the others were bugging him about, wouldn't that make it worse? Two sides to every story. It's NEVER okay for things like this to happen, but I have the ability to sympathize with both sides. The pain that a person must go through to get to the point that he feels the need to go on a killing spree must be ridiculous.

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by FireFly

If someone picked on your kid every day of his life through school to the point where your kid came home crying all the time, wouldn't you be ****ed at that? And if your kid already had ADHD or some other mental illness the others were bugging him about, wouldn't that make it worse? Two sides to every story. It's NEVER okay for things like this to happen, but I have the ability to sympathize with both sides. The pain that a person must go through to get to the point that he feels the need to go on a killing spree must be ridiculous.

Even if that was the case then why go out and take it out on innocent victims? That's just basically doing what is being done to you. You are harming people who don't deserve it. People who so called picked on you should be the target, but even then it's not ok to pull out a semi automatic gun and open fire in a school. That's freaking insane. It's never ever ok to do anything like this and frankly the suspects in cases like this are freaking morons and I have no sympathy whatsoever towards them.

As firefly pointed out, obviously something would have to had to trigger this and i'm sure he did get picked on etc bc that's what happens to result in something like this in most cases. But as I said, opening fire on innocent victims doesn't solve your problems, you are just causing pain on other innocent families for no reason.

[Eastern Girl]

Originally Posted by FireFly

If someone picked on your kid every day of his life through school to the point where your kid came home crying all the time, wouldn't you be ****ed at that? And if your kid already had ADHD or some other mental illness the others were bugging him about, wouldn't that make it worse? Two sides to every story. It's NEVER okay for things like this to happen, but I have the ability to sympathize with both sides. The pain that a person must go through to get to the point that he feels the need to go on a killing spree must be ridiculous.

People are flat out mean and cruel sometimes. I was teased at school when I was younger, so I do sympathize with kids that deal with that. But that sympathy tends to end when they pick up a gun and start killing people.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by FireFly

If someone picked on your kid every day of his life through school to the point where your kid came home crying all the time, wouldn't you be ****ed at that? And if your kid already had ADHD or some other mental illness the others were bugging him about, wouldn't that make it worse? Two sides to every story. It's NEVER okay for things like this to happen, but I have the ability to sympathize with both sides. The pain that a person must go through to get to the point that he feels the need to go on a killing spree must be ridiculous.

Of course I would be. That wasn't the point I was trying to make in the post. If anything, I was more pointing out the fact that there seemed to be no sympathy from some posters towards the victims.

But I still don't see how that effects this situation. You said it yourself, it's never okay for thigns like this to happen. I don't see why were trying to justify the actions of a killer here. And, again, how do we know this guy went through pain? I'm pretty sure it's a complex issue when somebody decides to commit murder and we have no idea on the history of this guy.

I agree with you fully that we need to understand both sides of the story and we need to hear what happened in this guys life. But remember, two wrongs don't make a right.

[Reggie Dunlop]

This "kid" was a 25 year old adult.

[OILFAN #81]

^ A map of Edmonton??

EDIT: Nm, Reggie edited his post.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

^ A map of Edmonton??

EDIT: Nm, Reggie edited his post.

Sorry about that. It was supposed to be a map of mental health clinics in the Montreal area, I guess you can't link that.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

This "kid" was a 25 year old adult.

Some people are never taught social skills, never taught how to deal with their feelings, and never taught wrong from right. A persons birth certificate age may not tell you what his mental age is.

Again, I'm not trying to justify this person's actions or say he isn't responsible for them as we're all responsible for our own actions, I'm just trying to point out that people can be not what they seem on the outside.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Some people are never taught social skills, never taught how to deal with their feelings, and never taught wrong from right. A persons birth certificate age may not tell you what his mental age is.

Again, I'm not trying to justify this person's actions or say he isn't responsible for them as we're all responsible for our own actions, I'm just trying to point out that people can be not what they seem on the outside.

Hate to play devil's advocate but you could say the exact same thing that he could very well be what he looks like on the outside.

I'm pretty sure we all have a basic sense of right and wrong, regardless of whether we were taught it. But that's a whole other debate

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Some people are never taught social skills, never taught how to deal with their feelings, and never taught wrong from right. A persons birth certificate age may not tell you what his mental age is.

And when YOU are 25 and you have problems it's up to YOU to get someone to help, because the rest of the world ain't gonna hold your hand and do it for you.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

Pickton murdered 27 and buried them in his farm in Port Coquitlam, which is basically Vancouver.

Earlier this year (in March or April I believe) 8 bodies were found in Ontario in the province's worst mass murder.

The psychology of someone who would systematically take out the prostitutes in an area one at a time over the course of years differs significantly from that of young persons who would open fire in a crowded educational institute. Don't forget, this is also potentially happening in Edmonton and area as well.** The psychology of someone who would execute a group of opponent gang members also differs significantly. There are a few things to note about this particular case...

First, the targeted area was a crowded educational institute. Not a mall or drugstore or movie theatre. A school in particular. Second, there was more than one actor (unless that report has been changed as well). Persons were working together and targeted not just any school, but this one in particular. Do you think it's a coincidence? Doubtful. When was the last time this person went to this school, if ever? Did the person have intimate relations with a student there, and could that be the cause? Etc. There are too many factors that can go into why a person would do something like this, but it's much different than the cold blooded killings of prostitutes or rival gang members.

** I meant the taking out of prostitutes thing... there have been a lot of prostitutes in Edmonton found dead lately and they think it's the same guy.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

And when YOU are 25 and you have problems it's up to YOU to get someone to help, because the rest of the world ain't gonna hold your hand and do it for you.

I am 25 and I do know it's up to me to get help. I also know I'd never kill someone unless it was life or death and even then, I don't know. What do you do when you don't realize you have a problem? Does an alcoholic know he has a problem? Not until he hits rock bottom.... what if this is rock bottom for a rage-a-holic?

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I am 25 and I do know it's up to me to get help. I also know I'd never kill someone unless it was life or death and even then, I don't know. What do you do when you don't realize you have a problem? Does an alcoholic know he has a problem? Not until he hits rock bottom.... what if this is rock bottom for a rage-a-holic?

I'm pretty sure we'd have alot more murders than. And I'm still curious on why we think this guy may have a mental problem...you may be perfectly mentally aware and still kill people...can you not?

Surely their line of thinking may be different, but I don't think I'd be too quick to assume this guy may have a mental illness. Just a thought though.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by jar_e

I'm pretty sure we'd have alot more murders than. And I'm still curious on why we think this guy may have a mental problem...you may be perfectly mentally aware and still kill people...can you not?

Surely their line of thinking may be different, but I don't think I'd be too quick to assume this guy may have a mental illness. Just a thought though.

I've assumed a lot of things and nothing in this thread. I've merely looked at alternative possibilities.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by FireFly

I've assumed a lot of things and nothing in this thread. I've merely looked at alternative possibilities.

Fair enough. Not trying to single you out or anything, it just seems like everybody gets into one mindset and it just seems like it may have no connection to the event itself.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Not until he hits rock bottom.... what if this is rock bottom for a rage-a-holic?

You make it sound like it was just a cry for attention.

Killing people is a pretty selfish way to "find" oneself.

If his problem indeed was an inability to control rage, then it would have been become obvious earlier on and likely addressed by schools and/or the court system at some level because it's not something that spontaneously manifests itself.

Ultimately, the onus would be him to correct his ways. The rest of the world can't walk about on eggshells because some people have "rage" problems.

[jar_e]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Montreal La Presse is reporting the gunman to be 25-year-old Kimveer Gill of Laval.

Montreal Gazette has identified the victim as being 18 year old Anastasia DeSouza of Montreal

A visual of Kimveer Gill. From the Toronto Star.

http://www.thestar.com/images/thesta...r_gill_300.jpg

[jar_e]

And more from Toronto Star....

But in a detailed user profile, asked how he wants to die, he wrote in prescient foreshadowing of yesterday's bloody events in Montreal: "Like Romeo and Juliet — or in a hail of gunfire."

The website http://www.vampirefreaks.com, which the Star found last night, reveals Gill as a lonely, conflicted, self-described 25-year-old Goth freak from Montreal who hated authority figures like police, principals and teachers and singled out "jocks" for high school bullying.

"Work sucks ... school sucks ... life sucks ... what else can I say?

"Metal and Goth kick ass. Life is a video game, you've got to die sometime.''

A cached version of the webpage shows a tombstone with the name "Kimveer'' on it.

Below his name is the epitaph that goes: "Lived fast died young. Left a mangled corpse.''

Gill's web handle, or the name by which he was known to other users of the website, is Fatality666.

"It's not only the bullies fault, but the principal's fault for turning a blind eye ... it's the police's fault for not doing anything when people complain (ooooops) my mistake, the cops are corrupt sons of whores, so it's not like they can do anything about it. F--- the police.

Gill then added that he was disgusted at society, which allowed people to behave like "*******s" to each other.

"Society disgusts me," he wrote.

I'm pretty sure we can rule out the mental illness excuse...It sure sounds like he knew what he wanted to do and was aware of his actions and plans.

However, as rather expected, he was "bullied" and I guess saw this as an outlet. But he waited 6-7 years...seems kind of odd to wait that long.

But, that aside, it sounds like being bullied wasn't his only problem.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by Philly06Cup

The point I'm trying to make is that it does not help to play the blame game. You want to place the blame on these two delinquents. Fine. But what does that solve? Absolutely nothing. I'm just trying to think of ways to progress after this, and prevent it from happening again.

Obviously, there is hardly any consolation to be had for having to bury a son or daughter -- thanks for that low blow.

Wow, it doesn't take long now. They are still freakign shooting and we're already making excuses for them? yes, let's feel sorry for the gunmen and portray them as poor victims too. That will make the next one easier to do for the next murderer. Especially if his eulogy is being written so nicley and well thought out like yours is for this.

[White Doors]

Originally Posted by political renagade

Good point

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!