May 2015 Provincial Election Thread v2

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by flamefan74

Just wondering where you get this info from? Because it is just flat out wrong. Most farms are actually fewer than 5 employees, and only a small handful would be 50+. And that would even be adding colonies.

It was stated to my group yesterday by an OHSA rep. I emailed him last night for the reference/numbers but I have not heard back yet.

EDIT: Also it's worth adding that even if there are 100 farms of 5 or less people (likely at least 2 of each would be considered "employees", not family), and only 10 farms with 50+, that's still a huge margin of full-fledged commercial businesses without safety oversight.

[flamefan74]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

It was stated to my group yesterday by an OHSA rep. I emailed him last night for the reference/numbers but I have not heard back yet.

No worries, just curious. I think it is an issue when the government agency charged to look after this gets these numbers so wrong. What else are they getting wrong and why should we trust what they say?

[flamefan74]

Originally Posted by Shazam

What does that matter anyhow? My company is eight employees - should I be exempt from stuff too? I wish.

For me, I don't have the issue WCB portion of it. It's the other legislation attached that I don't agree with. And the government is trying to show it as big companies trying to get out of WCB and not looking after their workers. Talking to most of my clients this week, this is their sentiment.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by flamefan74

No worries, just curious. I think it is an issue when the government agency charged to look after this gets these numbers so wrong. What else are they getting wrong and why should we trust what they say?

The question is however, do you have numbers countering this that aren't anecdotal?

I think a big problem is because the farming community in Alberta considers themselves so tight-knit, they think they know everyone in the province, when this may not be true.

I mean, honestly, in 2006 there were 49,431 farms in Alberta. That is 50k businesses without safety oversight, WCB, or minimum wage regulation.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/ca-ra2006/a...rta-eng.htm#r4

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by flamefan74

For me, I don't have the issue WCB portion of it. It's the other legislation attached that I don't agree with. And the government is trying to show it as big companies trying to get out of WCB and not looking after their workers. Talking to most of my clients this week, this is their sentiment.

Gee I think the illegal Mexicans harvesting in California get treated better than the farm workers here.

[polak]

I can't believe people are actually defending the farms here.

"They should be exempt from the safety standards and wage regulations that every other industry has to adhere to because of... REASONS! SCREW YOU NDP!"

[peter12]

Does anyone really think that OSHA provides any real "safety oversight?"

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by peter12

Does anyone really think that OSHA provides any real "safety oversight?"

If nothing else, they have the right to charge those in violation of safety standards.

Also it's OHSA, OSHA is a different group run by the US government.

[polak]

Originally Posted by peter12

Does anyone really think that OSHA provides any real "safety oversight?"

They probably do... Does anyone choose to ask for or use it?

[GGG]

Nn compliance with osha will get you shut down. So initially it won't prevent accidents but after OHSA starts fining people or shutting down farms it will improve.

A farm and a well site are petty similar in risk. One safety is talked about constantly. The other it isn't.

This also gives employees protection if they refuse unsafe work by demanding respirators if handling chemicals or fall protection if working at heights.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

If nothing else, they have the right to charge those in violation of safety standards.

Also it's OHSA, OSHA is a different group run by the US government.

Isn't it OH&S in Alberta?

... About all I have to add to the farming debate.

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm for the farming changes and have been since the PC's started examining this. But farmers are a funny bunch, they're the most anti-government anti-interference people in this province.

Even though this was pretty much a PC pilot the NDP is going to get kicked swiftly in the sack on this in the urban votes.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm for the farming changes and have been since the PC's started examining this. But farmers are a funny bunch, they're the most anti-government anti-interference people in this province.

.

I think if you replace "funny" with "entitled" you have just defined the AB farmer.

If not, they really need a different lady to run this cause for them, because that's all the public hears.

[polak]

Oh yes, my old job was in the feed business. Farmers are the worst.

"What do you mean you can't deliver a single pallet of feed to me in the middle of absolute nowhere?" Well I can, but it will cost you 2 grand since there isn't another business around you for hours.

"You can't deliver this to me until the end of the week!? What are my animals supposed to eat!" I don't know, maybe you should've thought about that before your feed ran out, cowboy.

Most frequent complaints I heard working in logistics for that company. They think the world revolves around them (it kinda does) and expect everyone to bend over backwards for them.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Even though this was pretty much a PC pilot the NDP is going to get kicked swiftly in the sack on this in the urban votes.

Yeah, man, I hear those dairy farmers in Bankview and Altadore are just right pissed about this.

[blueski]

Originally Posted by peter12

Does anyone really think that OSHA provides any real "safety oversight?"

Maybe some real farmers/ranchers can weigh in, but from what I can guess, the activities are so varied throughout the year that they would have to be onsite too much to make a real difference in actual safety.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by blueski

Maybe some real farmers/ranchers can weigh in, but from what I can guess, the activities are so varied throughout the year that they would have to be onsite too much to make a real difference in actual safety.

I'm really not sure what you guys think they would provide, but OHSA applied to farmers would entail:

• Compliance spot checks
• Injury/Fatality investigations
• Enforcement of safety standards/worksite practice
• Revocation of business licenses due to continued non-compliance/negligence

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I'm really not sure what you guys think they would provide, but OHSA applied to farmers would entail:

• Compliance spot checks
• Injury/Fatality investigations
• Enforcement of safety standards/worksite practice
• Revocation of business licenses due to continued non-compliance/negligence

I didn't read any of the articles, but I'm assuming another "Part" will be added to the code specifically for Farmers? Like the Tree Care Part, just so it's clearer on what the agricultural community need to focus on to ensure they can be successful with all of the above. I sure hope so, otherwise it will be an administrative disaster.

[Derek Sutton]

The biggest problem is that the NDP are pushing this through with so many unanswered questions, that is the big reason there is so much opposition. We all can agree that safety awareness should be at the forefront of all occupations, and for all employees. We can also agree that treating and paying workers fairly should be common practice.


All the opposition however is because we all know it will not stop there, riding helmets in place of cowboy hats, children not being able to help their parents, or heck even go ride the motorbike/ horse without filling out a JSA, equipment inspection and service records from qualified heavy duty mechanics. Nobody really knows or has admitted what will become of all of this but farmers have real reasons to rally against this. Could parents potentially be fined or charged due to the accidental death of one of the own children? this could be the reality of imposed OHS regulation.


Aside from small family farms, the Hutterites will really have a problem with this not only with the pay issue but many of them run side "businesses" such as gravel pits, construction, concrete finishing, plastics manufacturing to name a few that I know of, where they do not have to have proper insurance, WCB, wages to pay etc... and that is not right. This allows them to severly undercut any competitors who have numerous expenses and taxes to pay.

[polak]

So? Boo hoo?

Also that's quite a bit of hyperbole? Helmets? It's not illegal to ride a bike without a helmet. Kids helping out? By that do you mean chores or doing actual unpaid labor?

It's 2015. The fact that all of that was going unchecked is a bit of mini miracle. They should be thrilled that it lasted as long as it has.