Explosion near Stadium in Paris, multiple shootings and hostage taking...

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Unfortunately, there is only one way to walk away from the middle east, and that is true isolation. It is pretty clear that no one has the stomach for that, either economically or socially. It may also not work at all, as consolidation of power into the hands of the few will just perpetuate itself.

The option that would be ideal, is to find a way to get the 4.5 million soldiers under arms in north africa to take an active and aggressive role against extremism. Up till now, there isn't much interest in pursuing that, outside of Turkey, Jordan and the recently crushed (by us) army of Iraq.

Long term, we need to find a way to get as much western style education to the masses of these countries as we can. Educated people are rarely a physical threat, or easily swayed by magical arguments.

I disagree. History has shown us that educated people such as those in power can and do commit acts of violence.

MyLai Massacre, Example of Group Evil

Is evil as expressed through political structures restricted solely to the actions of a ruthless dictator? No, says Peck. Is a democracy such as that in the United States immune from evil? No once again, says Peck, and the example of political evil that he cites in People of the Lie is the War in Vietnam, the lowest moment out of many very low moments of which was the massacre at MyLai.

This in abbreviated form below is how M. Scott Peck recounts this flagrant example of group evil in People of the Lie (pages 212-214).

“On the morning of March 16,1968, elements of Task Force Barker moved into a small group of hamlets known collectively as MyLai in the Quang Ngai province of South Vietnam… Army intelligence had indicated that the Vietcong were currently being harbored by the villagers of MyLai… All troops were supposed to be familiar with the Geneva Convention, which makes it a crime to harm any non-combatant or, for that matter, even a combatant who has laid down his arms because of wounds or sickness…

“Although essentially all elements of the Task Force were involved one way or another in the operation, the primary element of ground troops directly involved was C Company, 1st Batallion, 20th Infantry of the 11th Light Infantry Brigade. When ‘Charlie’ Company moved into the hamlets of MyLai they discovered not a single combatant...No one fired on them. They found only unarmed women, children and old men…Some of the things that then happened are unclear. What is clear, however, is that the troops of C Company killed …somewhere between five and six hundred of those unarmed villagers.”

http://mindcheck.blogspot.ca/2007/03...-and-evil.html

[T@T]

Doing some searching:

USA
Canada
Russia
Germany
Japan
Great Britain
Brazil
Sweden
Finland
Australia
India
Malaysia
Mexico
Turkey
Argentina
Italy
Poland

Countries whose leaders have posted condolences to France on the tragic events.

Two Muslim countries and only one anywhere near the middle east...sad.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by T@T

Doing some searching:

USA
Canada
Russia
Germany
Japan
Great Britain
Brazil
Sweden
Finland
Australia
India
Malaysia
Mexico
Turkey
Argentina
Italy
Poland

Countries whose leaders have posted condolences to France on the tragic events.

Two Muslim countries and only one anywhere near the middle east...sad.

And neither of them are our "great allies," Saudi Arabia.

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

WTF learn to read.

PIMKing is painting Muslims in the same brush, but when he needed help does he know who donated to him and what religion they were? It's all about perspective. I donated myself to PIMKing so you need to just calm down there buddy. Go for a walk or something.

Im giving him a pass on this one ONLY. Emotions take control in times of times like this. He is a german citizen worried about his country at the moment and a large scale attack is completely plausible in any neighboring country of France at this time. I don't agree with it but imagine an attack of this scale happened in a province of Canada right next to yours you might be alittle irrational too. It iss relatively the same distance apart.

I once again don't agree with the statement and especially dont agree with the statemant he made " should we worry about the 3rd or 4th generation instead " because its only 3 and 4 gernerations after world war 2 and what conspired within that conflict. I do empathize ( without condoning) the worry and fear tho that many feel at this time throgh out Europe.

My heart goes out to France and the victims of this tragedy. This was an archaic attack based on unfounded facts of a ancient text no matter what religion this was in the name for.

[polak]

Nothing will work. All your suggestions are not going to work. Hundreds, if not thousands of people are killed in pointless gang violence all over the world.

Is there any difference between killing someone cause they dont believe the same fairy tale as you or killing someone cause they rep different colors then you?

I will say that at least North American gangsters have the decency to try and only kill each other.

The whole world is ####ing ####ed.

Build a wall, literally and figuratively until the middle east either figures it out or destroys itself. That is all there is to it. Abandon all western connections to the region.

Its all ####ing ####ed.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Itse

France 24 reports seem to have settled at "at least 120 dead", with about 80 of those in the Bataclan concert hall. Number of attack locations seems to have settled at six. The targets also include an Italian restaurant and a Cambodian restaurant, just to add to international flavour.

It's at least 153 dead according to everyone else.

[polak]

im pretty drunk i shouldnt be posting

[JohnnyNipshank]

Found a link on bbc of video from outside the club just horrifying to see the chaos. the audio alone probably won't let me sleep tonight

Daniel Psenny, a journalist from French newspaper Le Monde, has posted dramatic video footage of people escaping from the Bataclan concert hall while gunfire rings out in the background.

Psenny, whose apartment overlooks one of the building's emergency exits, filmed concertgoers climbing out of windows to escape. Many are screaming as they run, some are clearly wounded and others dead.

Warning: the footage is graphic

NSFW GRAPHIC

http://mobile.lemonde.fr/attaques-a-...urope-34815972

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by Armchair Quarterback

The thing that annoys me the most is that every time this happens in an open, western society, it makes life a little less open and free for everyone else as security will undoubtedly be tightened up everywhere.

That is exactly what terrorists want.

[DAN0383]

Just chatted with a cousin of mine in Paris, she is okay, have not heard directly but it seems the rest of my family there are all safe and accounted for. Phew!

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

France has lots of options, they can go to the secretive with their intelligence agencies, they can be overt in terms of standard military responses.

I would expect that France's citizens will demand action, and we will start to see more strident air strikes from France and from NATO air assets in the area.

Domestically, they are going to turn things upside down in a search for radicals and sleepers, the rest of Europe will probably replicate this.

I would also expect that Immigration is going to be deliberately slowed down.

I think that beyond special forces units in the area, you put a massive bounty on every leader in ISIS, and see if you can fracture that tumor.

I'm pretty sure that someone is willing to stab a leader in the back for 10 mil.

FYI, There's been a $10 million bounty on al-Baghdadi's head since 2011. They could care less about money.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

That is exactly what terrorists want.

You know what "terrorists" want? Are you speaking for terrorists? Are you a terrorist? You are a terrorist!!


Sorry... just getting a jump on what the next 5 years are going to be like... I like to be ahead of the curve...

And also in that same way of thinking... "french fries" which were once called "freedom fries" will now be called "super patriot FRENCH fries". Be sure to order some tomorrow.

[Dion]

[vanisleflamesfan]

nm

[combustiblefuel]

I know with emotions high right now this won't be a popular opinion but I still fully support Canada withdrawing from a fighting postion into a humanitarian postion instead. I believe we need to show the local populous we are not the enemy. We are there to help those in need from the terrors. Like the old saying goes a good offense is a great defence.


When I say humanitarian missions I mean provide aid to the locals with out INSTIGATING the fights. If Canadian forces are there providing aid and come under fire then light there asses up with all the fiery fury Haydes can provide and show the people in the middle eastern ares that Canada is a loving accepting country there to protect the people but will provide resouces to a better life first and foremost . I don't beleive we need to be involved with offensive bombings and attacks.


Showing countries effected by cruel insurgents that Canada will provide care first but will DEFEND them when they fall under attack is a powerful tool to help curb radicalization.

Edit: If we have learned anything about the U.S.A led war on terrisiom is being consistently on the offensive leads to more civilian casualties then it soes to terrorist deaths. That in turn inspires more radicalization against weastern countries then just a mere words alone do. It figuratively gives those words a face to go with the name.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by rubecube

And neither of them are our "great allies," Saudi Arabia.

I would expect the Saudi's to be last on the list, some of the worst human beings on the planet IMO.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by combustiblefuel

I know with emotions high right now this won't be a popular opinion but I still fully support Canada withdrawing from a fighting postion into a humanitarian postion instead. I believe we need to show the local populous we are not the enemy. We are there to help those in need from the terrors. Like the old saying goes a good offense is a great defence.

I would prefer to look like an enemy than a wimp, exactly what offence do you get from withdrawing from NATO duty's..ISIS needs to be killed not cuddled.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by T@T

I would expect the Saudi's to be last on the list, some of the worst human beings on the planet IMO.

But... but... but... "this is a country (Saudi Arabia) that is an ally in the fight against the Islamic State ". - Stephen Harper...

But... this... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-10242747.html


But hey... I guess talking tough while supporting the Saudis (who are actively supporting ISIS) makes us "LOOK" tough and not like a "wimp". Reality doesn't really have any place in the optics of the conservative minded... Cripes...

[combustiblefuel]

Originally Posted by T@T

I would prefer to look like an enemy than a wimp, exactly what offence do you get from withdrawing from NATO duty's..ISIS needs to be killed not cuddled.

Your drunk T@T. Sleep it off then come back and come have a conversation thats rational. Your not clearly understanding the points I have laid out.

[JetsFlamesFan]

Gatwick just started trending on Twitter. Apparently some or all of Gatwick airport has been evacuated. Someone found with a grenade in their backpack.