[News] Mark Giordano Extension Done! 6 years, $40.5 million ($6.75 million AAV)

[Calgary4LIfe]

Treliving strikes me as a guy who will manage assets effectively. I am more than sure he would rather keep Hudler around, but it will have to make sense financially and the term has to make sense as well. Without a doubt, Hudler will be able to make more money on the FA market.

With that being said, players do often take less money to play in a situation they like - usually, but not always. I, for one, am just happy that the Flames will not have to overpay for FAs any longer. One can argue that Raymond was a 'fair contract' based on his performance with Toronto, but I felt it was a bit of an over payment. Engelland for sure was an over payment - but at least down the stretch and in the playoffs, one could make the argument he ended up earning most of that contract.

Giordano was a great first step in the Flames' re-signings. Flames are definitely looking like a team that players want to play for again. Will be interesting to see what happens with that top line.

[Poe969]

I don't think signing Hudler now is smart anyway, wait until Christmas time to see if he is playing the same as last year or takes a step back. If he's playing the same, then you now you're signing the same player but if he's no where close to the same then you reconsider signing him.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Yeah, not going to happen. Of the top 9 scorers in the league last year, at 4 million he would be getting paid the lowest by 1.25 million. The average salaries of those other 8 is a shade over 7 million. If he replicates last season, he'll get that on the open market. Best hometown discount would likely be in 5.5-6.0 million, taking into account Treliving wizardry, hopefully somewhere around the low to mid 5 million.

All sub 30 guys, or guys who signed their deals before they were 30. Sedin being the only exception, but he's also the Canucks captain.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Hometown discount, taking less to help the team, etc. are a bit of a myth. The NHL is a business. Not only do players want to maximize their earnings, they have agents, the NHLPA, family, etc. who pressure them to take the best contract they can. How much of a discount have Crosby, Toews, etc. taken for the good of their teams? Players might take very minor discounts if they really want to stay with a team, or their family really loves a city. But not significant discounts.

If another team is willing to give Hudler significantly more money than the Flames, he will move. I'm perfectly okay with that. And I suspect Treliving and Hudler's teammates are too.

Nonsense.

1) Agents work for the player, not the other way around. Yes the agent does what he can for his client, but if a player says "I want to stay with team X" then the agent is forced to make the best deal he can...with that team and that team only. No pressure at all to do something else if the player doesn't want to. period.

2) NHLPA doesn't give a lick what any particular player wants to sign for any longer. It doesn't matter because there is this thing called HRR and the share that the players have to draw on. Whether Giordano (or any player) signs for 1 million or 10 million, the only effect it has on salaries are on the team he signs with.

3)Family. No question there can be pressure from the fam. But that works both ways. A player can be just as likely to want to go elsewhere for more money but succumb to the wishes of wife and kids to stay right where they are as everything is familiar and comfortable for them. Others may say it would be great to go make XX more elsewhere too, but that kind of thing is an everyday occurrence in all areas of life.

Giordano likely left over 10 million dollars on the table with this deal...so if you want to characterize that as a "very minor discount", knock yourself out, but I would suggest the vast vast majority would not agree with you.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

How quickly we shift our focus. Last year, nothing but fear that we would drop out long term focus, this year, we'd rather win a few more games then properly manage assets.

If Hudler is willing to sign a team friendly contract, then great, if not, the Flames need to ship him off at deadline time, he'll generate some good return that will help us win in the upcoming seasons if he's not going to be around.

The focus has not changed. The focus is to win. Is there some kind of prize for asset management at the end of the year? Yes, Yes, I understand. You want to win too, but winners don't trade top 10 scorers from teams during playoff runs. It will never happen. It sends a horrendous message to the players and fans. I bet a guy like Gio would just love it after leaving money on the table if we traded our most productive forward and leaders of the team while we're in a playoff race.

'Umm, sorry Gio, actually we timed this rebuild to last 5 years, so until then we're just going to trade important pieces for picks regardless of how the team actually is performing.'

This team is a contender. Get used to it. It feels great.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Prufrock

Awesome videos, it's great seeing a couple of undrafted guys work hard throughout the summer. I'm sure Gio is a huge inspiration for Jooris.

The other thing I take away from Jooris' short time here is that he really seems like a very well liked teammate.

Usually with teams you see the typical top player cliques at events/summer hangouts. It seems Jooris is with our most social players everywhere you look, and you hear rumblings that he's one of the best guys to be around.

In terms of intangibles like team chemistry I really hope Jooris makes the team full time and is a regular player, I bet he contributes in a very positive way to the team on and off the ice.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by jayswin

The other thing I take away from Jooris' short time here is that he really seems like a very well likely teammate.

Usually with teams you see the typical top player cliques at events/summer hangouts. It seems Jooris is with our most social players everywhere you look, and you hear rumblings that he's one of the best guys to be around.

In terms of intangibles like team chemistry I really hope Jooris makes the team full time and is a regular player, I bet he contributes in a very positive way to the team on and off the ice.

I think Jooris can be a very useful player, and his price-tag is very team friendly.

I see guys like Jones, Raymond, Byron and Bollig leaving, and I hope Jooris stays.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by croflames

i see guys like jones, raymond, byron and bollig leaving, and i hope jooris stays.

ftfy

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

All sub 30 guys, or guys who signed their deals before they were 30. Sedin being the only exception, but he's also the Canucks captain.

True. But are you saying you think Hudler's worth more because most of those guys signed their deals before becoming a top 10 scorer, thus are underpaid, or he's worth less because he's on the wrong side of 30 and only had one season of 70+ points?

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

True. But are you saying you think Hudler's worth more because most of those guys signed their deals before becoming a top 10 scorer, thus are underpaid, or he's worth less because he's on the wrong side of 30 and only had one season of 70+ points?

Obviously the latter. If he put up 70+ as a 26 year old, he'd be cashing in huge.

Hudler's age hampers his ability to get the huge deal. He's never going to be the central figure on a team like all those top 10 scorers are.

On the open market, I say he gets $5MM on a multi year. More if it's 2 or less.

If he signs an extension, I think it's between $4MM and $5MM, hoping closer to $4MM.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Obviously the latter. If he put up 70+ as a 26 year old, he'd be cashing in huge.

Hudler's age hampers his ability to get the huge deal. He's never going to be the central figure on a team like all those top 10 scorers are.

On the open market, I say he gets $5MM on a multi year. More if it's 2 or less.

If he signs an extension, I think it's between $4MM and $5MM, hoping closer to $4MM.

I can't see Hudler signing an extension for less than $5 million after the season he just had unless it's a ridiculously long contract. If he's willing to sign a 4 x $5 dollar extension deal I think it would have been done by now.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by Major Major

The focus has not changed. The focus is to win. Is there some kind of prize for asset management at the end of the year? Yes, Yes, I understand. You want to win too, but winners don't trade top 10 scorers from teams during playoff runs. It will never happen. It sends a horrendous message to the players and fans. I bet a guy like Gio would just love it after leaving money on the table if we traded our most productive forward and leaders of the team while we're in a playoff race.

'Umm, sorry Gio, actually we timed this rebuild to last 5 years, so until then we're just going to trade important pieces for picks regardless of how the team actually is performing.'

This team is a contender. Get used to it. It feels great.

The focus is to win - agreed.

This team is a contender - depends on what you think they are contender for?

The answers to the following questions are key:
- The focus is to win what? Some games, a playoff series, or the cup?
- They are a contender for what? The playoffs or the cup.

There's nothing I need to get use to. If you answer the questions above with the: Cup and Cup, then your stance on Hudler makes a lot of sense, and I wouldn't question your take, it's the right take if that is what you believe.

I happen to believe the answers to those questions as we sit right now are: Cup, Playoffs. If that's the case, either getting Hudler on a cap friendly term, or trading him at the deadline are the only option.

The message to the team thing on a trade is so not a factor this year for this club.
- The message has been sent to the club on how serious we are about winning with the Hamilton trade, the Frolik signing and the Gio extension.
- This is no longer a fragile young team fighting for it's first unexpected playoff birth where the experience and accomplishment of that alone has ridiculous value, that was done last year.

If this team is forced to move Hudler at the deadline, there is 0 chance this gets viewed as anything other than smart asset manangment by the players, it will send no negative message to the squad.

Now, should we sit firmly outside the playoffs come deadline time, the debate goes away because we clearly aren't a contender and the choice is easy. Same goes for if we have established ourselves as a true cup contender at deadline time as well, but in both scenarios that is because the answer to the key questions have changed.

Right now if you see this club as anything more than a "playoff contender" that is pure fan excitement, and zero logic going into that, which is fine, but it's clouding your judgement on the Hudler situation. This team has a lot to prove to be considered a team with a realistic shot at winning the cup this year, but as I said earlier, the nice thing is we are going to get ~60% of this season to add data to figure out where this club actually sits on the "contender" scale before we have to decide on Hudler.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The focus is to win - agreed.

This team is a contender - depends on what you think they are contender for?

The answers to the following questions are key:
- The focus is to win what? Some games, a playoff series, or the cup?
- They are a contender for what? The playoffs or the cup.

There's nothing I need to get use to. If you answer the questions above with the: Cup and Cup, then your stance on Hudler makes a lot of sense, and I wouldn't question your take, it's the right take if that is what you believe.

I happen to believe the answers to those questions as we sit right now are: Cup, Playoffs. If that's the case, either getting Hudler on a cap friendly term, or trading him at the deadline are the only option.

The message to the team thing on a trade is so not a factor this year for this club.
- The message has been sent to the club on how serious we are about winning with the Hamilton trade, the Frolik signing and the Gio extension.
- This is no longer a fragile young team fighting for it's first unexpected playoff birth where the experience and accomplishment of that alone has ridiculous value, that was done last year.

If this team is forced to move Hudler at the deadline, there is 0 chance this gets viewed as anything other than smart asset manangment by the players, it will send no negative message to the squad.

Now, should we sit firmly outside the playoffs come deadline time, the debate goes away because we clearly aren't a contender and the choice is easy. Same goes for if we have established ourselves as a true cup contender at deadline time as well, but in both scenarios that is because the answer to the key questions have changed.

Right now if you see this club as anything more than a "playoff contender" that is pure fan excitement, and zero logic going into that, which is fine, but it's clouding your judgement on the Hudler situation. This team has a lot to prove to be considered a team with a realistic shot at winning the cup this year, but as I said earlier, the nice thing is we are going to get ~60% of this season to add data to figure out where this club actually sits on the "contender" scale before we have to decide on Hudler.

You need to build a culture and a team before you win a Cup. Teams build on playing meaningful games, making the playoffs and winning series, meshing together as a team and making that final push.

Any team in any sport that sells its most productive players while they are making a push to the playoffs loses credibility with its players and its fans. The Flames do not have to sell off their prospects but they also do not need to be stocking up on picks anymore. Sometimes you take a gamble. Players do go to free agency every year. Sometimes you replace those players with another free agent. Sometimes you replace from within the system.

It may well be that Hudler demands more than the Flames can pay and it may be appropriate to move him depending on where we are and how his season is going, but if we do I would expect a quality forward to come back that meshes with both short-term and long-term plans.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

The message to the team thing on a trade is so not a factor this year for this club.
- The message has been sent to the club on how serious we are about winning with the Hamilton trade, the Frolik signing and the Gio extension.
- This is no longer a fragile young team fighting for it's first unexpected playoff birth where the experience and accomplishment of that alone has ridiculous value, that was done last year.

If this team is forced to move Hudler at the deadline, there is 0 chance this gets viewed as anything other than smart asset manangment by the players, it will send no negative message to the squad.

Bogus claim. Utterly bogus. Players don't give a hoot about asset management in March. They don't care about 2019. The only compass they are guided by is 2016 and winning every time they hit the ice with a chance at everlasting glory. Lance Bouma isn't going to nod his head approvingly reading the headlines of 'Hudler for picks' while drinking a smoothie through a straw because he threw his face in front of a puck the night before.

And fragile? It would be fragile for a player to be disheartened by a message from management that this year is not the year, maybe in 2 or 3? When they go through what has been regarded as the hardest camp many people have seen? When they bruise, bleed, give every ounce possible. When we have guys who have experienced tremendous success in this league through sheer will and perseverance. When Gio is playing his first playoff games as captain, first playoff games in almost a decade. Sorry guys, you're not cup contenders. Maybe in a few years. Don't be fragile about it.

And yes, I am an excited fan. But it is not leading me to illogical conclusions. Frankly, I can't name a single playoff team that I wouldn't name a cup contender if they added Gio, Hamilton, and Frolik, let alone 2nd round teams. Not a favorite, nope, but if that is the criteria for trying to win, then you are too focused on asset management, and have taken your eyes off the prize.

[MisterJoji]

Re-direct back to Giordano related information. EA's top 10 NHL defenseman according to their NHL 16 rankings (in no specific order):

Weber, Doughty, Keith, Suter: no concerns there.

Hedman, Pieterangelo, McDonagh: good defenseman, still think Gio is slightly better (especially compared to Hedman) but it's close.

Subban, Karlsson: great offensively (as is Gio) not nearly as good as Gio defensively. Pretty weak.

Josi: you've got to be ####ing kidding me.

[jayswin]

It's not a myth that Burnaby based EA sports has always rated Flames players lower than they should.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It's not a myth that Burnaby based EA sports has always rated Flames players lower than they should.

Yep and Canucks players are way overrated every time. Everyone with a pulse is 83+ if they are a Canuck. I bet Sbisa is rated higher or the same as Brodie in NHL16.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It's not a myth that Burnaby based EA sports has always rated Flames players lower than they should.

Brodie is probably still 82 overall.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yes, I too know how to exercise better than professional athletes, my chiseled physique shall back up my claims...

He may edge you out in the deadlift (by a hair mind you), but when it comes to the dumpling lift...

[Soliak]

Originally Posted by MisterJoji

Re-direct back to Giordano related information. EA's top 10 NHL defenseman according to their NHL 16 rankings (in no specific order):

Weber, Doughty, Keith, Suter: no concerns there.

Hedman, Pieterangelo, McDonagh: good defenseman, still think Gio is slightly better (especially compared to Hedman) but it's close.

Subban, Karlsson: great offensively (as is Gio) not nearly as good as Gio defensively. Pretty weak.

Josi: you've got to be ####ing kidding me.

Interesting that you think Gio is 'better especially compared to Hedman'. Out of the three you listed in that sentence I would have Hedman as the clear cut #1 of the group. He is way better than Piet or McD IMO and is probably as good, if not better than Gio. He was very dominant in the playoffs. A scary proposition moving forward.

My D-man top 10...

Doughty
Keith
Weber
Gio
Hedman
Suter
Karlsson
Subban
Piet
McD

D who are elite defensively >>>>> elite offensive D.