[Rumour] Giordano Extension. Kypreos: Starting point is $72 million over 8 years

[T@T]

Originally Posted by transplant99

fair enough...though it was right after they won. They were not going to let him go right after a SC victory and there was another run to the finals in there.

Point is.... 7 years is too long

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

The point of hockey is to win the cup. Not worry about cap space in 7 years.

Let's say Gio is effective for 4 more years. Do you make your team that much more competitive for 4 years and then see where you are? A lot can change in 4-5 years.

Players of his calibre just do not hit FA and there is a reason why.

The point of hockey is to win the cup and worry about your cap and team in the future. If you plan for the next 4 years with disregard to the 4 after you could swing and miss and your rebuild could be for nothing. I think this team is going to slowly progress over the next 2-4 years into a contender. I think our best years are beyond that. I see no reason to think our window is somehow closing in year 3 of a rebuild.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by T@T

What's your point?,

My point is obvious...at least to most

Chara signed a 7 year extension the year after the cup win,

Right. So should they have NOT signed their captain right after he led them to a Stanley Cup win?

they missed the playoffs last year and had no cap space for arguably their best Dman at age 23. Chara at 38 is now a giant pylon. and will be for 3 more years.

Yes they did...and Hamilton was a part of that team as well...or is it all Z's fault?

What's so hard to understand?, was thinking of an Dman signing a big contract at 33, fortunately for Philly they didn't have to loose a young player because of him, or maybe you think without the "so-called long term concussion" he would be a Norris contender at age 40?

So a couple things here. Are you suggesting that Pronger isn't suffering concussion symptoms any longer with your "so called" qualifier?

And who suggested he would be a Norris contender? I would argue he would still be a very effective player had he been able to stay healthy, but in no way would he be the best in the game any longer.

[Hackey]

I agree with "going for it" when the time is right. If I'm the Ducks then ya I'm worrying less about the future and focusing on winning a cup in the next 1-3 years. I don't think the Flames are there quite yet and that is why I don't think we can adopt that same strategy. Especially with a guy like Gio. If we are an elite team that is ready to challenge for the Cup year after year in say 4 years time is that the point when Gio starts to regress and his contract actually ends up hurting our chances at a Cup? That is more what I am concerned about.

[Chonger]

In what world is retirement age for a hockey player 40? Is he as good as Lidstrom and Chelios? Only 2 players I can think of who were a factor for there team after the age of 38 in the last 15 years.
Anything over 5 years is a huge gamble that could handicap this team. Whoever says let's pay him for the 8 years and try to win now. Do you not want to have a chance to win every year? Cause you cant be as competitive a team when you got an anchor preventing you from making moves or signing players.
Also, if that original starting price and term are true. Its a bit of a slap in the face by how ridiculous it is. Agent says 9x8, how bout 1x8? Gio says he wants to stay in Calgary. But his agent doesnt convey that with his negotiating tactics.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Everyone needs to relax a little... Agents are paid to get their clients maximum value. Of course he's going to open discussions at 8 yrs and 72 million dollars.

If Treliving has proved anything, it's that he's an incredibly savvy and intelligent GM. He'll get a deal done and I'm sure once he does, it will be fair for both sides.

[Phanuthier]

This was mentioned earlier by starseed, and I doubt they will do this since they want to get a contract done by training camp for the long term, and Gio probably wants a long term right now as an insurance to him getting injured.

But what if they extend him now for a 1 year, $12M ... then July 1, 2016 give him the 5 year, $xxM... that would be a near equiv of giving him a 6 year deal, but front load it. And he is extended right away next summer as a sign of good faith.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by jemjey

Not worrying/caring about long-term implications of a contract is a good way to ensure you won't have another GM job. As it is, Tre has proven that he isn't short-sighted, which I think is great. Of course I want to get Gio signed, and of course we're a better team with him than without, but giving him a long-term deal without caring about its impact in the final years of the deal isn't good management. If you win the cup, its worth it, but if you don't it can backfire very quickly. Would you still sign him to an 8-yr deal if you lose in the finals and that deal goes on to hamper your ability to sign Monahan/Gaudreau/Bennett?

Sure hurt Chiarellis employment chances. What did it take....2 weeks?

Finally, I don't think a GM's number 1 job is to win. If you're hired as GM of a rebuilding team (say, the flames,) your job isn't to go out and try to win a cup in your first year by signing guys to contracts that will handcuff you down the road. Your job is to set the team up for long-term success, something I think Tre is doing a great job of.

Of course it isn't...which is why I explicity said...

Any GM's number 1 priority is to win. Whether that be now or in a few years, all these guys have one single goal in front of them

I also agree Treliving is doing a fabulous job thus far and why I hope fans of this team don't lose their collective minds if Giordano comes in at a number/term they aren't comfortable with. The guy will be both fair and studious but I have a feeling that will still be too much for some.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

This was mentioned earlier by starseed, and I doubt they will do this since they want to get a contract done by training camp for the long term, and Gio probably wants a long term right now as an insurance to him getting injured.

But what if they extend him now for a 1 year, $12M ... then July 1, 2016 give him the 5 year, $xxM... that would be a near equiv of giving him a 6 year deal, but front load it. And he is extended right away next summer as a sign of good faith.

And he gets severely concussed during that season and is never able to play again....he has then left how many millions on the table?

No way he should sign a deal like that.

Again, and as pointed out above, lots of people are freaking out about nothing at this point regardless of the supposed opening numbers.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

This was mentioned earlier by starseed, and I doubt they will do this since they want to get a contract done by training camp for the long term, and Gio probably wants a long term right now as an insurance to him getting injured.

But what if they extend him now for a 1 year, $12M ... then July 1, 2016 give him the 5 year, $xxM... that would be a near equiv of giving him a 6 year deal, but front load it. And he is extended right away next summer as a sign of good faith.

This was discussed a few pages ago, it would be beyond irresponsible for Giordano and his agent to agree to that. You just simply cannot operate on "good faith" in a cut throat business.

Scenario: Giordano signs the one year deal then gets a career ending injury in March. You think Treliving is still signing that second contract in July?

Scenario: Giordano has a tough season, doesn't look like the same player, value has clearly dropped. You think Treliving still signs him to the agreed upon price? He can't, he'd look foolish.

Scenario: Giordano has a Norris winning season, Rich Winters says "Sorry Brad, this season was incredible, his value has gone up, we're gonna play hardball".

What does Treliving do, go to the NHL and say "but but...we had a deal in good faith"?. The NHL would say great, maybe try getting a deal in contract form next time and we'll make them honor it.

It's a completely implausible idea at the NHL level.

[PsYcNeT]

And once again, please keep in mind this is all predicated on an unverified statement from friggin' Kypreos.

[saillias]

It was TSN first, then Kypreos. They reported the same thing

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And he gets severely concussed during that season and is never able to play again....he has then left how many millions on the table?

No way he should sign a deal like that.

Again, and as pointed out above, lots of people are freaking out about nothing at this point regardless of the supposed opening numbers.

Yeah I fully realize that... I was probably dreaming anyways.

I'm actually expecting something like $8M x 6 years... we'll see though.

[Loyal and True]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I agree with "going for it" when the time is right. If I'm the Ducks then ya I'm worrying less about the future and focusing on winning a cup in the next 1-3 years. I don't think the Flames are there quite yet and that is why I don't think we can adopt that same strategy. Especially with a guy like Gio. If we are an elite team that is ready to challenge for the Cup year after year in say 4 years time is that the point when Gio starts to regress and his contract actually ends up hurting our chances at a Cup? That is more what I am concerned about.

I am interested in the discussion of "going for it". What it means and when you do it.

Going for it, IMO, is at some point you roll the dice and try to leverage one or two key contracts at the right time. That way you have cap space to add that extra piece(s) to put you over the top and increase your odds of making a cup final and winning a cup or two.

The trade off is you likely won't repeat because you have to restructure for a year or two. But if you maintain (and replenish) a young core then you can reload quickly and make another run.

To properly leverage a key contract, you need massive cap savings for a key period of time, in order to justify the overpayment (excessive cap hit) that comes at the end of the contract. You don't pay fair value, followed by overpayment. You pay BELOW value, followed by overpayment.

My view is that most young stars are good and affordable until they are 26 or so (maybe you buy 1 or 2 UFA years on the second contract). If you are lucky you might have one or two players that you can offer another 8 year contract (Kane, Toews, Getzlaf, Perry, Crosby, Ovy) to take them to 34 or so. The rest are debatable to re-sign or trade for assets at 26 or so. If you are drafting and developing properly, some of those players can be replaced within a year or two.

In LA, Carter and Richards are examples of leveraged contracts that allowed the kings cap space to fit all the pieces into 2 cups in 2012 and 2014. They have cap problems and miss playoffs, but they are still a contender.

For Calgary, I like our core for the next six years but who knows after that. We aren't going to draft 4th or 6th overall for the next 6 years. If Gio's agent offered 5 years BELOW value in exchange for 3 years overpayment, I would consider it.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by saillias

It was TSN first, then Kypreos. They reported the same thing

e5

[Loyal and True]

Obviously, if Gio's agent thinks anyone will pay 9M annually for a 36 to 40 year old defenceman, he is in for a surprise. 5M AAV for 8 yrs is something to think about.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by flameswin

This was discussed a few pages ago, it would be beyond irresponsible for Giordano and his agent to agree to that. You just simply cannot operate on "good faith" in a cut throat business.

Scenario...

It's a completely implausible idea at the NHL level.

well I guess my reply here is his "insurance" money, though significantly lower (and probably not acceptable) is the pay bump he gets... i.e. instead of getting $9M, he gets $12M... or $14M or whatever is the max he can get. Thats a $5M insurance policy, essentially. Again I understand if its not acceptable... but would be awesome if he did.

[jemjey]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Sure hurt Chiarellis employment chances. What did it take....2 weeks?

Not sure Chiarelli is the greatest example... are you saying you want Tre to leave us with a cap situation that forces us into trading a young stud player?

Plus, Edmonton is no good.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And he gets severely concussed during that season and is never able to play again....he has then left how many millions on the table?

I guess he would be like the worlds most unluckiest $12m lottery winner then..Boo fk'n whoo.

NHL should be like the NFL, get paid millions only if you perform. kind of like real life without the millions of course!

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Sure hurt Chiarellis employment chances. What did it take....2 weeks?

Went to the biggest gong show in NHL history after rightly ####ing his old team by chaining them with a series of boat anchor contracts. Not sure going to Edmonton is a ringing endorsement of someone's capabilities. In fact, I would say it is just the opposite.