[Signing] Sabres extend Ryan O'Reilly long term (7 years, 52.5 million)

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by T@T

I was told today it's a loophole that slipped threw the CBA cracks, the good thing is the NHL and NHLPA should both hate it and fix it pronto.

ROR is also taking a chance here as well, if his play goes in the tank he could be bought out for 660k per season that's left on his contract.

Huh?

How can it be a loophole when it explicitly states in the CBA that a percentage of salary + bonuses will be held for the purposes of escrow?

If a team isn't putting a % of a player's signing bonus into escrow, then they are incorrectly handling the escrow procedures as defined by the CBA.

Hell if that is the case Shea Weber made $52 million over the last 4 years without contributing a dime to escrow.

BTW from what I can tell anyone who claimed that it the signing bonus would provide escrow protection has backed off that stance.

[expatflame]

A lot of cash for a guy who has scored more than 20 goals once in his career.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Huh?

How can it be a loophole when it explicitly states in the CBA that a percentage of salary + bonuses will be held for the purposes of escrow?

If a team isn't putting a % of a player's signing bonus into escrow, then they are incorrectly handling the escrow procedures as defined by the CBA.

Hell if that is the case Shea Weber made $52 million over the last 4 years without contributing a dime to escrow.

BTW from what I can tell anyone who claimed that it the signing bonus would provide escrow protection has backed off that stance.

Don't shoot the messenger man, I was told singing bonuses are exempt from escrow in the CBA, I hope it's incorrect but when you think of it what other reason would a player set it up this way? If he doesn't perform for various reasons he could throw millions away from a buyout.

[Jason14h]

Don't shoot the messenger man, I was told singing bonuses are exempt from escrow in the CBA, I hope it's incorrect but when you think of it what other reason would a player set it up this way?

They prefer their money on July 1st as opposed to over the course of the season? Present Value of Money.......

[sureLoss]

Not sure where this ROR has to worry about a buyout comes from. It is for the same reasons the Clarkson buyout is considered "buyout proof"

As per general fanager the way the contract is structured is advantageous to O'Reilly in the case of buyout, where he gets almost all his money and the Sabres would get little cap relief.

General Fanager @generalfanager
@jtommyt @SnowdenNHL Signing bonuses are paid in full even if contract bought out. Have confirmed this with multiple sources.

General Fanager @generalfanager
To be clear, benefit is mostly for O'Reilly. BUF still have to pay signing bonuses in full, and buyout would provide minimal cap relief.

General Fanager @generalfanager
@SnowdenNHL @jtommyt Well, there'd be little cap relief. The hit with O'Reilly would be $7.5M, if they bought out, would still be $6.833M.

[Trailer Fire]

Why on earth would Buffalo even consider that contract?

[TKB]

Didn't think it was possible but I believe Murray might actually be a worse Gm then macT!

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Just because Buffalo overpaid ROR doesn't mean we need to overpay Gaudreau. You usually don't look at bad outlier contracts as your comparable.

It is not the Flames that will want to or think it is a good idea to overpay. The price gets driven up by an offer sheet.

ROR would not have gotten 5M on a 2 year bridge contract as a 21 year old followed by a increase to 6M without 1 GM (Feaster) making that offer. All it takes is one desperate GM to convince his owner that this is what will turn around their franchise.

When do outlier's become the norm? Sekera (IMO a Russell caliber d-man) RoR

[ricardodw]

This deal and contract bogles the mind:

O'Rielly was the 4th best forward under 25 on The Avs:

Dushense 6M x5
Landeskog 5.5 x 6
MacKinnon ELC

Buffalo would not have been able to get these players for the 2 1st (that have already shown to be good picks) and High 2nd round picks they had to give up.

The salary that RoR gets indicates that he is a better player than these 3.


Next year why should MacKinnon be happy with the 6x6 deal? If MacKinnon was an RFA this year then it would be pretty certain that Buffalo or a desparate team like them would rather have him as their Franchise player for the same assets they paid to get ROR.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Sometimes I know what I'm talking about. Just sometimes, though.

This contract really isn't as horrible as everyone is making out. If he progresses to a Patrice Bergeron level player it will be about right on (which is possible, the guy's only 24). If he continues on at his current level he will be overpaid by what, $1 million at most? If he regresses it will be bad, but one can say that about any contract.

And there is no budget in Buffalo. Pretty sure Pegula wipes his bottom with $100 bills.

It doesn't matter how much money you have when there is a salary cap.

When it comes time for Buffalo to contend they will need every last dollar. I suspect most fans will regret having overpaid for O'Reilly at that point.

[FlamesAddiction]

You have to keep in mind that Buffalo is pretty much the Edmonton of the USA. They have to pay more in order to keep and attract players.


For Buffalo's sake, they better hope that this contract doesn't become the baseline for their RFAs in the future.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Gaudreau is a RFA next year the same as Monahan.

Gaudreau, appears to be in the upper echelon of young RFAs . Because of his size and reel of highlights Johnny Hockey is more famous than basically any young player outside of MacKinnon and McDavid.

I was expecting that the top limit for locking up the face of the Franchise young stars was set to 6M x6 years. Now it has been stretched to 7.5x7.

Buffalo gave up 2 1st and a high 2nd ( #16 overall Zaradov, a #12 Grigorenko and #35 Compher) ... similar to what and RFA offer sheet for a 7-9M offer sheet.

Gaudreau is better player , story, celebrity than RoR ... If RoR is worth all that Gaudreau will have to be worth an 8M or maybe 9M offer sheet...

would you trade Gaudreau even up for RoR?

If you owned an American NHL Franchise that wanted to sell tickets I think there is no question Gaudreau would be the prize you want... even more so than Monahan.

I think the price just went up.

UFA vs RFA, pretty straight-forward.

Also, as Hackey said... just because one teams overpays on a deal doesn't mean every team has to on every deal.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It is not the Flames that will want to or think it is a good idea to overpay. The price gets driven up by an offer sheet.

ROR would not have gotten 5M on a 2 year bridge contract as a 21 year old followed by a increase to 6M without 1 GM (Feaster) making that offer. All it takes is one desperate GM to convince his owner that this is what will turn around their franchise.

When do outlier's become the norm? Sekera (IMO a Russell caliber d-man) RoR

Offer sheets don't concern me. I think Gaudreau and Monahan want to be here and I believe they will be signed before other teams can offer sheet them. Both seem like decent honest guys so I think they will be reasonable. Obviously I could be wrong but I see it working out fine. I'm sure they will try and extend Russell before the deadline. Hopefully there is no issue. If there is then you look to trade him.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

UFA vs RFA, pretty straight-forward.

Also, as Hackey said... just because one teams overpays on a deal doesn't mean every team has to on every deal.

So why did the Flames have to pay Hamilton 5.75 x 6 ... He was a RFA... why didn't Boston just make the qualifying offer and let him sit.... I don't even think 21 year olds get to file for arbitration. Two year deal for 3M/per after which you are still an RFA or sit out a season... play in the KHL. The way the Jets did with RFA Burmistrov.


The package that the Sabres gave away to get (not quite UFA O'Rielly) totally blew what the Flames the Flames gave Boston. The Flames gave slightly more than they would have to to get Hamilton rather than an offer sheet. So this negates paying a UFA so much because you don't have to give up assets.

The move by the Av's to get their 2016 second round pick back and have their own 1st 2nd and 3rd picks is at least a minor indication that if the Flames try to low-ball Monahan or Gaudreau (or their teams: Barkov, Seth Jones, or Lindholm) they would be able to offer sheet them... Those 5 players are almost certain to be better than 15-20 draft pick that would be the highlight of the offer sheet.

It also provides some protection if someone offer sheets MacKinnon.

It only take 1 team to offer sheet.... and the one offer sheet threatens everyone with a franchise type RFA that they need to sign.

[2macinnis2]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So why did the Flames have to pay Hamilton 5.75 x 6 ... He was a RFA... why didn't Boston just make the qualifying offer and let him sit.... I don't even think 21 year olds get to file for arbitration. Two year deal for 3M/per after which you are still an RFA or sit out a season... play in the KHL. The way the Jets did with RFA Burmistrov.


The package that the Sabres gave away to get (not quite UFA O'Rielly) totally blew what the Flames the Flames gave Boston. The Flames gave slightly more than they would have to to get Hamilton rather than an offer sheet. So this negates paying a UFA so much because you don't have to give up assets.

The move by the Av's to get their 2016 second round pick back and have their own 1st 2nd and 3rd picks is at least a minor indication that if the Flames try to low-ball Monahan or Gaudreau (or their teams: Barkov, Seth Jones, or Lindholm) they would be able to offer sheet them... Those 5 players are almost certain to be better than 15-20 draft pick that would be the highlight of the offer sheet.

It also provides some protection if someone offer sheets MacKinnon.

It only take 1 team to offer sheet.... and the one offer sheet threatens everyone with a franchise type RFA that they need to sign.

Well you would hope over time teams and owners would 'wise up.'

Not the case in Buffalo. After foolishly overspending to sign a Leino and Ehrhoff, here you go again.

One thing that does seem to happen to good-not-great players who change teams (especially if going to a fairly bad team) for egregious mark-up is that they seem more likely to play below their potential.

When considering the whole package, ROR is not a great player- never has been and never will be. I saw Cube reference Bergeron. Total player package including intangibles, ROR will never hold Bergeron's jock... especially not now that he has a lifetime contract.

I think the key is to develop a premier core (hoping for Flames that is Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Hamilton and Brodie) and pay those guys elite money. There's no way around elite money for guys who carry your team. Around them you draft and develop strong support players, much like Chi has, and know that there is going to be turnover in that group of support players thanks to the cap.

But once you long-term overpay a ROR (or for Flames' sake say a Frolik, Weidman, even a Hudler, etc etc), that becomes much more difficult.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

Well you would hope over time teams and owners would 'wise up.'

Not the case in Buffalo. After foolishly overspending to sign a Leino and Ehrhoff, here you go again.

One thing that does seem to happen to good-not-great players who change teams (especially if going to a fairly bad team) for egregious mark-up is that they seem more likely to play below their potential.

When considering the whole package, ROR is not a great player- never has been and never will be. I saw Cube reference Bergeron. Total player package including intangibles, ROR will never hold Bergeron's jock... especially not now that he has a lifetime contract.

I think the key is to develop a premier core (hoping for Flames that is Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Hamilton and Brodie) and pay those guys elite money. There's no way around elite money for guys who carry your team. Around them you draft and develop strong support players, much like Chi has, and know that there is going to be turnover in that group of support players thanks to the cap.

But once you long-term overpay a ROR (or for Flames' sake say a Frolik, Weidman, even a Hudler, etc etc), that becomes much more difficult.

Great post. If anything Buffalo is building towards being a perennial playoff team, which compared to where they were is a wet dream for their fans, so of course they'll be eating this up right now.

"OMG, another star-ish player in Buffalo? Hell yeah, pay the man! Look at this; prospects! UFA's! It's all coming together!!!!!"

But as much as they point to their current cap situation and say "bah, who cares, you guys are looking too far ahead, we can afford it now, so we're going for it, playoffs!!!!!", it's a contract like this that could/likely will stop them short of becoming a Stanley cup contender when that window starts to open up for them.

[Hackey]

Ryan O'reilly being overpaid has nothing to do with Buffalo and everything to do with Jay Feaster. He was gonna see this money no matter what. Feaster is the one who overpaid him initially on a short term deal. Colorado resigned him and obviously had to give him a small increase in pay. Now when he goes to Buffalo obviously they have to give him an increase because what 24 year old is going to accept the same money or less? They gave him a million extra which over a 7 year contract isn't bad but looks bad because Jay Feaster overpaid on a short term deal intially. Thank god Colorado matched.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Ryan O'reilly being overpaid has nothing to do with Buffalo and everything to do with Jay Feaster. Feaster is the one who overpaid him initially on a short term deal. Colorado resigned him and obviously had to give him a small increase in pay. Now when he goes to Buffalo obviously they have to give him an increase because what 24 year old is going to accept the same money or less? They gave him a million extra which over a 7 year contract isn't bad but looks bad because Jay Feaster overpaid on a short term deal. Thank god Colorado matched.

Uhh, yeah actually it does have something to do with Buffalo. They signed him. I get your point, that a series of events led to him being "worth" what he is today, but in the context of this discussion, yes Buffalo has something to do with Buffalo having a very high priced, second line centre.

Buffalo had two choices;

1. Sign the player to what he eventually agreed to

2. Don't sign the player, continue on a very awkward/slimey/but now functioning rebuild

They chose to fast track their rebuild with a known me first/get all the money possible by any means player who will likely stunt their growth from playoff team to Stanley cup contender. This is all on Buffalo, there's no reason to look back on other teams that drove his price up and absolve Buffalo of their part in this.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by flameswin

Uhh, yeah actually it does have something to do with Buffalo. They signed him. I get your point, that a series of events led to him being "worth" what he is today, but in the context of this discussion, yes Buffalo has something to do with Buffalo having a very high priced, second line centre.

Buffalo had two choices;

1. Sign the player to what he eventually agreed to

2. Don't sign the player, continue on a very awkward/slimey/but now functioning rebuild

They chose to fast track their rebuild with a known me first/get all the money possible by any means player who will likely stunt their growth from playoff team to Stanley cup contender. This is all on Buffalo, there's no reason to look back on other teams that drove his price up and absolve Buffalo of their part in this.

Yes I get what your saying but if he didn't get it from Buffalo he would have got it from someone else. I don't see this as say a UFA situation where Buffalo overpaid to out bid other teams. This was the going rate for O'Reilly because he was overpaid by Feaster. Realistically if O'Reilly can consistently put up 60-70+ points per year the contract isn't that bad. They traded quantity for quality and I'm usually a fan of that. It will be difficult for them to attract free agents so sometimes you gotta choose other avenues to improve your team. Their top 6 looks really good now though so maybe it pays off in the end.

[GGG]

I think that this is what number 2 centres make now days. Lankow got 4 million with about a 39 mil cap maybe it was only 36. OReily gets 7.5 million in a 72 mil cap world.

Seems to be the same contract.