Men-only barber shop controversy

[photon]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I've read and fully comprehend what has been stated but don't agree with this notion of justifiable or selective discrimination. We either have or strive to achieve a society based on equality where there exist no limitations or exclusions or we have a society where it is acceptable for a certain group to be exclusionary but not others.

With respect to your question about organizing clubs and groups, a club or group isn't the same as a public business so it's not directly comparable. Groups or clubs vary in nature and some may be covered by human rights acts (in Alberta a trade union, employers’ organization or occupational association can't limit membership by gender) while others won't be. A public business is expected to not discriminate based on gender.

You may not agree with the notion of justifiable discrimination, that's fine. But then having any discussion about cases like women's gyms is worse than pointless because the actual discussion lies elsewhere. Either work on the presumption that justifiable discrimination is valid even if you don't agree, or argue the merits of justifiable discrimination itself.

Similarly with respect to the requirement that a public business not discriminate based on gender my guess would be (and you may have even said this outright, I can't remember for sure) that you also don't support the idea either. Which again is fine, but again makes any discussion about businesses discriminating pointless since the actual discussion is about the merits of the law requiring non-discrimination.

It's like me trying to argue about orbits and gravity and stuff with someone, not getting anywhere, and the actual difference is I think the earth is flat. Any arguments about gravity or orbits would then be a waste of time and would just go around in circles (ha!) because the root of the difference isn't being looked at.

Any disagreement should dig down to a point of agreement and work forward from there.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

I really can't grasp how any man would give a rat's behind who was waiting in the chair next to them? The only reason I would care is because I would likely have to wait longer but the same thoughts would run through my head if it was a guy with long hair. The gender to me is irrelevant.


Honestly, is cutting your hair some sort of symbolic thing? You are cutting your hair, you're not being baptized, or circumcised. Are there real mean out there who care if there is another woman in the shop with them?

The only reasonable explanation is that they were giving full-body haircuts. I'd probably feel uncomfortable too if there were a lady in the room while I was getting all of my hair cut.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by V

It's not that complicated. They're promoting a vagina-free barber shop. Obviously there's demand for such a place, since they're still in business. Doesn't make it right, but it seems to have been working for them so far.

This has nothing to do with technique and everything to do with the fact that apparently some guys want to get their hair cut without the annoying presence of a woman in the room. I don't get it, and don't think it's right, but there appears to be a demand. By allowing women into the establishment they will potentially lose clientelle that enjoy visiting for the vagina-free atmosphere.

Do you think the business is popular because they are a no 'women allow club' or because they specialize in mens hair cuts? I would argue strongly in the latter.

I go to a barber shop to get my hair cut. They specialize in mens haircuts, it is staffed only by men and has a male aesthetic to it. I don't go there because it's a 'vagina free atmosphere'. I go there because they specialize in mens haircuts and I suspect most other customers feel the same way. Your conclusion is like saying people go to Flames games because it is a CFL free atmosphere. While technically it's true, but not for the reason you think.

Oh and I also check my barbers website and they do offer female haircuts.

[V]

I don't know why they are popular, or even if they are popular. All I do know is that they have a "No Girls (or "others") Allowed" policy, and that they are still in business. My guess is most patrons use the shop because they're good at men's cuts. However, this shop has decided to market themselves as an exclusively male barber shop, both in employees and patrons. I don't believe it's unreasonable to assume that they choose to market in this way because they believe it will increase their market share. That's what companies do.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by V

I don't know why they are popular, or even if they are popular. All I do know is that they have a "No Girls (or "others") Allowed" policy, and that they are still in business. My guess is most patrons use the shop because they're good at men's cuts. However, this shop has decided to market themselves as an exclusively male barber shop, both in employees and patrons. I don't believe it's unreasonable to assume that they choose to market in this way because they believe it will increase their market share. That's what companies do.

I see what you are saying. But when I read their own words "providing exceptional grooming services for men in a unique atmosphere geared specifically to men" it's not clear that they would refuse women. It will be interesting to see what happens now that their position is very public and clear. They will probably get increased business because people are like that. Regardless, just because it's a viable business doesn't make it right or legal.

[V]

I think their actions speak as loudly as their policies, so when they actively turn away a female customer for no other reason than the fact that she's female I believe it adds context to their marketing policy.

[taco.vidal]

http://www.leaderpost.com/life/fashi...674/story.html

Ruddy, Ragged Ass Barbers settle human rights complaint


BY AUSTIN M. DAVIS, LEADER-POST JUNE 16, 2015


REGINA — A local barbershop that created controversy in August by refusing to cut a woman’s hair will now provide services to anyone who wants a traditional men’s haircut.

Craig Zamonsky, the owner of Ragged Ass Barbers, and Evie Ruddy, who filed a human rights complaint over the refusal, came to a mediated settlement Tuesday through the Saskatchewan Human Rights Commission.

According to the commission, both sides acknowledged that, on Aug. 28, Ruddy was wrongfully denied a haircut because she is a woman.

“She should not have been turned away when she contacted the barbershop to inquire about getting a haircut,” Zamonsky said in a news release.

“Ragged Ass Barbers will do its best to continue to meet the needs of all of its customers within the scope of services we provide.”

He also offered an apology to Ruddy, one she believed to be heartfelt and genuine.

[rbochan]

Geez.
####ing ####s.

[PsYcNeT]

Good.

[Northendzone]

it is a great day for womens rights

[rotten42]

Ya...right up there with the right to vote

[#-3]

Thank god, I can now go to Regina and fulfill my life long dream of working out a Curves. Because clearly it is a direct attack on men everywhere that someone wants to provide a service catering to women specifically.

[Weitz]

So.. Can I apply for a membership at Only Womans Fitness now?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Weitz

So.. Can I apply for a membership at Only Womans Fitness now?

I find it difficult to do dead lifts with an erection

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I find it difficult to do dead lifts with an erection

Thats why you do the sweat pants tuck while riding the bike.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Thats why you do the sweat pants tuck while riding the bike.

#protip

[northcrunk]

Originally Posted by #-3

Thank god, I can now go to Regina and fulfill my life long dream of working out a Curves. Because clearly it is a direct attack on men everywhere that someone wants to provide a service catering to women specifically.

Curves flash mob? Spa Lady?

[northcrunk]

Would the men's version of Curves be called Wangs?

[FlamesAddiction]

I get why a barber shop would want to be known as "men only" from a marketing perspective. But I also get why it's wrong to deny someone a service based on gender.

I feel the right decision was probably made, but that it was probably a stupid fight to take on to begin with (just as it would be for a man to challenge Curves). Any man doing that is a jerk, even if maybe it's his right.

[lazypucker]

The barbershop owner should have just told the female customers that they only do buzz cuts, if the ladies want to stay and have their heads shaved, so be it...