CP Mafia 3 - Super Smash Mafia - GAME OVER - Darkness Win!

[dissentowner]

Oh you think I went after him to take attention away from others? That would be really stupid of me if I was scum. I mostly went after him because his " I am proven town and only mafia would vote for me" stance is pretty damn suspicious. That and it makes total sense that either he or GS are scum given their powers.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No, I went off of Rathji because Squiggs seemed the better bet and nobody seemed to agree with me that he sounds scummy at times or that his power does not clear him as town so I dropped it for now. You were the one earlier who said you can't see anyway Rathji is not town and now from the way I read it you think him and I are scum buddies? That us pretty farfetched and laughable.

He is saying that you were trying to keep heat off your buddies by trying to throw doubt into my status as town. When it didn't work, you jumped on what appeared to be the next obvious lynch to keep suspicion away from you.

Don't worry, you are top on my list for tomorrow, and there is a lot more 'proof' and connections that hasn't been brought up all in one place here to tie it together.

I hope I get time to put all in a post before the hammer, because it seems to be coming fast and I am in 'honey-do' mode for MrsRathji right now

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Rathji

He is saying that you were trying to keep heat off your buddies by trying to throw doubt into my status as town. When it didn't work, you jumped on what appeared to be the next obvious lynch to keep suspicion away from you.

Don't worry, you are top on my list for tomorrow, and there is a lot more 'proof' and connections that hasn't been brought up all in one place here to tie it together.

I hope I get time to put all in a post before the hammer, because it seems to be coming fast and I am in 'honey-do' mode for MrsRathji right now

We can hold off until you can post. We still need Squiggs to do his final pre death post and find two more votes.

I think you, me, Drury and perhaps girly depending on alignment are the targets tonight.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Puxlut

Now that my beloved Peach is gone, I wouldn't mind having a peek at you...

Get it? Peek at you? Pikachu?
I've been watching the thread... just haven't really seen anything that pops out. One person says somethings that makes me think "Yah! That dude is totally guilty!" But then they come up with a reasonable retort. I have a couple of people that my gut says that there's something weird about them, but other than that... it's like watching a tennis match... back and forth.
I don't think SS has been around... we haven't chatted in a couple of days.
I'm not going to say who I tried to douse yet. But I will say; it wasn't Pika.

That is beautiful. Pika applauds you.

[Timbo]

I don't mind jumping on the lynch Squiggs bandwagon.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by GGG

We can hold off until you can post. We still need Squiggs to do his final pre death post and find two more votes.

I think you, me, Drury and perhaps girly depending on alignment are the targets tonight.

Won't have time to put it together until late tonight it looks like. It's nothing that isn't obvious though, in the off chance I do get night killed.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Rathji

He is saying that you were trying to keep heat off your buddies by trying to throw doubt into my status as town. When it didn't work, you jumped on what appeared to be the next obvious lynch to keep suspicion away from you.

Don't worry, you are top on my list for tomorrow, and there is a lot more 'proof' and connections that hasn't been brought up all in one place here to tie it together.

I hope I get time to put all in a post before the hammer, because it seems to be coming fast and I am in 'honey-do' mode for MrsRathji right now

Except when you lead the charge against me and I flip town guess who is next? If that is what it takes for them to open their eyes I am all for it. I win if the town wins.

[dissentowner]

I have been up front and honest the whole game. Disclosed my powers when it came time unlike you who said if I reveal my other power it will hurt the town. Everyone else revealed with no issue, even GS. As soon as I made the suggestion you might be scum you went at me hard, trying to eliminate the threat as fast as possible. Yes, the power you used would suggest more of a possibility of town looking at it from the outside yet the way you post and how fast you got your guard up combined with your secrecy all points to you being scum.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Won't have time to put it together until late tonight it looks like. It's nothing that isn't obvious though, in the off chance I do get night killed.

We have until Tuesday. No reason to risk us missing the obvious.

Personally I think everyone should go back and post what they think about whoever their top suspects yet including post links. We got time, all powers have been disclosed

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Except when you lead the charge against me and I flip town guess who is next? If that is what it takes for them to open their eyes I am all for it. I win if the town wins.

You being town doesn't have any indication that I am not town. If being townie meant we would only be lynching mafia, this game would have been over a long time ago. If lynching a townie meant we were mafia, then we all would be guilty. The fact that you bring this up as an indication of me being mafia means that you are not applying logic correctly to the situation. Hunches are great for day 1 and 2, but will lose the game for the Town of they are used over logic in the final days.

Honestly, we can't screw up any more. This is why you are not top of my list, because squiggs is a better target. There is more to go on, but that still doesn't mean you will be the best target come tomorrow. It will come down to incorporating the new evidence into the old and making the best choice.

[Aeneas]

Curse you Oling! Just catching up on the reading and squiggs saying contrived deceit jumped out at me too. I was going to point it out, but, too little too late as usual.

Answering rathji, yes I was town last game, came under suspicion for being quiet and hiding. But then slain by the mafia for nearly the same reason. They thought I was quiet and hiding cause I was the doctor.

[dissentowner]

Well obviously I have been suspicious of Squiggs since day 1. I figure 1 of Rathji or GS has to be scum due to their powers, I am on the fence on which one.If we kill GS and she flips scum that would clear Rathji in my eyes however we would lose a day. If we kill Rathji and he flips town I think we can make a safe bet GS is scum. I think at this point the only person I am fairly confident is town is GGG. I still wonder about Starseed and Puxlut and the whole MOT thing. Nothing good came of their suggestions but that could be coincidence. There is still nothing that proves Twilight is not a scum tool unless I missed something?

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Seriously, who uses the phrase contrived deceit? Oh yeah:

So when I want to talk about the messages, you say they messages are always false and don't mean anything, but are quick to bring them up when it suits your argument. I used contrived deceit because I had read it in one of the message posts, and thought it fit the situation. Pika's really happy that you are talking about the two words I used, rather than the actual topic I posted about.

It seems like the lynch Squiggs train is gaining steam, mostly on Oling's vendetta against me. If Oling is mafia, then he played it well, but if he is town, then as I've pointed out before, it has wasted a day and a member of the town. Pika's can point out how Oling's detective skills are worse than Inspector Gadget, but it doesn't seem like you've listened to me before, so why would you start now? I now know how hmmhmmcamo felt at the end of day 2. I've tried many things to convince, but they don't seem to work. Pika will also point out that when I hmmhmm was lynched the votes on me were

squiggs96 (6): Oling_Roachinen, GGG, Delgar, GirlySports, dissentowner, hmmhmmcamo

Oling, GGG and diss are still on this vote, with Girly likely to join soon. Delgar died, and hmm voted for me as it was one of the two of us who were going to die.

All pika asks is that when you I flip town you go after Oling, and don't believe anything he has to say. He'll manipulate facts, post partial truths and then claim innocence or how big he was in finding out about formulate. I congratulate the mafia on being able to convince us townies to continue to lynch fellow townies. Pika wishes he had gotten to be on the mafia team, but maybe next time.

[GGG]

Oling,

Have you ever voted for Girly or Diss. They have been listed repeatedly on your suspicious list but you appear from the searches I have done to have never voted for them.

You voted Starseed instead of girly early on when you linked them.

Starseed/Drury can you check your vote lists to confirm.
And if it's easy can we find out how much squigs, diss, oling, and girly have voted for each other.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by GGG

Oling,

Have you ever voted for Girly or Diss. They have been listed repeatedly on your suspicious list but you appear from the searches I have done to have never voted for them.

You voted Starseed instead of girly early on when you linked them.

Starseed/Drury can you check your vote lists to confirm.
And if it's easy can we find out how much squigs, diss, oling, and girly have voted for each other.

I voted for girlysports just today and came back after the reveal with the only vote still on her.

I also linked Formulate to Starseed (I made a post but basically he said he was okay with the hammer dropping on Starseed yet wanted to give him more time, and in that time the vote got changed to Timbo, remember I was already watching for people formulate was connected to) so Starseed kinda tied the room together for me.

I don't think I've voted for dissentowner but I also don't think he's been high on my suspicious list until he was deemed one of the 4 unknowns.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by formulate

The only way I see of getting truly concrete proof would be a lynch.

I'm without desktop access for the duration of the long weekend, and will be without the required combination of internees connectivity, time and sobriety for the duration as well. I assume both will be the case for a decent number of posters.

I won't be bringing the starseed hammer yet, and while I can't ask for the game to be paused, it would be nice to get a chance to review everything starting Monday night.

Here's the post in question, it seemed like a nice way to give him Starseed more time without actually defending him.

Of course I was wrong, but it's hard to overlook post like this when you believe Formulate was working with people.

[Rathji]

So, let me just say that none of this is damning by itself, and I realize that this could just be me playing into the whole cognitive dissonance thing here ...

It is kind of a novel, and it isnt always in chronological order, as I tried to group things which were similar together.

Started the ball rolling on character reveal. At this point it wasn't completely sure to everyone that it was random. There is also some info to be gained from this, but not a whole ton

Originally Posted by dissentowner

As stated in the OP, we can roleplay our character and it always comes out who we claim to be anyhow so do we want to get the ball rolling on who is who character wise yet?

Has been on the starseed wagon quite a bit, as well as Puxlut. The bolded part is particularily interesting. Diss seems to have an issue identifying which powers would be useful for town and for mafia. This byitself doesn't mean alot, as the MOT thing was just really confusing

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Done a lot of reading today. Here are my thoughts. The MOT in my opinion was clearly a tool for the mafia. I think starseed is mafia and I think MOT 2 is Puxlut who is also mafia. Go back and look at the MOT success rate for pushing us to look into townies and how many have been eliminated. I think they have also been trying to throw us off by listing one of their own that never gets enough attention or votes, that person is girlysports. That is also why despite the MOT's saying we should look into her she just stated she believes starseed is town. You want to find the scum, start looking at the people trying to steer attention away from starseed. Seriously, I am not sure how anyone can not look back and not see the pattern there. Those three I am pretty sure are scum, I have a few others I am suspicious of as well.

Here is another instance where he is taking a clear town ability, lynchproof, and trying to claim it is mafia.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So you are saying you cannot be lynched ever? I call B.S. Nobody would ever be given that power that is town.

Third time is the charm? This exchange where asked for his reasoning behind skipping night being a mafia power. And his response was essentially "Why not". He never did give reasoning for this

Originally Posted by Rathji

ok, I am listening.

In order for you to prove that it is possible for me t be mafia, you must fulfill the following 2 conditions:

1. Prove that it makes sense to Mazrim to give that power to a Mafia member.

To do this, give me any common situation, where it would make sense for a mafia member to skip the only time they are able to kill people (baring vigilante powers, which are clearly a Townie power in almost every circumstance)?

Any situation will do, except ####### Mod games, which Mazrim clearly has indicated that this is not one of.


2. Then, explain why a mafia member would use that ability in this time of the game where they are dominating so clearly.
s.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

1.If a mafia member could skip the night he would also skip all night actions the town could do. That would benefit the mafia.
2. Why not?

Posts like these seem over the top, where he blames people for not knowing someone was town when they got lynched. Almost like he knew they were town but forgot that we didn't...

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Really? Your twilight was a key factor in helping lynch nothing but town so far but the aftermath is not that terrible huh...

Lots of these "I am town" and "I win if town wins" type posts. These always strike me as suspicious from someone without any sort of semi-reliable town indication. This is just a single example:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Except when you lead the charge against me and I flip town guess who is next? If that is what it takes for them to open their eyes I am all for it. I win if the town wins.

Similarily, a lot of "You and your buddies are mafia posts". For me, it kind of seems over the top. Like the previous, not a big thing really, by itself.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes, they were mafia kills. We didn't take the bait and lynch them for you so you guys had to kill them yourselves. Most of the people we suspected were town you have tried to get us to lynch. Is that just coincidence?

This is an example of both at the same time.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

We are the ones who didn't swallow the bait and lynch the people you wanted. That is obviously the town.

Late and seldom voting seems more like a mafia thing than a town thing. Don't want to get seen as the guy leading the charge on the townies who keep dying. Plus, if you end up needing to vote on a mafia member, you voting late can easily be seen as just normal voting pattern for you, so you dont need to toss your vote on too soon. If you want to see total voting list at this time, see this post: http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=2874

Originally Posted by mrkajz44

So I spent over an hour going back and reviewing all the "big votes" much like I did last night with the Day 3 votes. I consdiered big votes to be anyone that had at least 4 votes against them at one time.

Here is my findings:

Late Voters
-Dissentowner's average vote is 8.0 (latest average), and has voted only on four of the big votes

....


So, where does that leave us? I see a few things that stick out:

-Dissentowner comes in late all the time and doesn't vote too often
-Formulate tends to be the middle of the pack all the time
-Timbo and Aeneas also likes to be a middle of the pack voter (similar voting pattern to Formulate)
-GGG tends to lead the charge with HG close behind
-Oling comes in as the fourth vote 4 times and tends to be an early voter

another late vote, on GGG

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If it makes everyone feel better, Vote:GGG

Once more, with feeling!

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Unvote

I guess I will go with everyone else, the people have spoken.

Vote:GGG

This is from much later in the game, but putting it in here for voting patterns:
(not quoting as you need the contextt)
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=3396
For clarity, I am not including this as proof dissentowner is mafia, but as an indicattion that if he is, Girlysports likely is.


He was #1 on mrkajz44 list due to his voting patterns, and this was his response. A very week claim. He expounds a bit later, with 2 strange abilities for a town to have ... see below

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Well if you are going to kill me I have two one time night actions that can help the town that I won't be able to use. Both powers are very hard to judge when best to use them. I am not sure what I have done to make anyone think I am anything but town and killing me just helps the scum. We need to make sure we start hitting mafia guys and there are more obvious suspects then myself. All I can do is ask for your trust on this.

At this point, mrkajz44 was night killed, after having Diss on the number 1 spot on his list. This was particuarily odd since I was pretty sure mrkajz was mafia at the time.
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...postcount=3144


This is a solid town post from Diss. First one I have really noticed.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I am not sure it is good timing for the cop to come out unless he has only done investigations on players that are still in the game. The longer we can keep the cop alive the more investigations he can do. Of course there is always the risk he gets night killed but that seems unlikely to me this early. I don't know, what do others think?

This is the second

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Naw, if you make it through this lynching we will just string you up again. Just because you have a one time unlynchable power that does not mean you are town. The fact that you keep pushing that as fact makes it very suspicious

These posts, including reponse from GGG pretty much sum up the recent exchange between Dissentowner and I the past coupple days

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You know I keep going back through posts and despite what he has done and combined with what was in my message about Rathji posting in mafia topic which the more I think about it the more it seems to me like they meant the mafia discussion board the scum use. I am starting to become convinced that:
1: GGG is in fact lynchproof after last night and
2: Rathji is playing us like a fiddle and his power was a scum power.

Originally Posted by GGG

This is a scum post.

The scum have done the math and realized that with Rathji's power the frame job on me doesn't matter and we have enough chances to win. They are now trying to move the target onto townies on our established town list.

Maybe when we are at Lynch or lose we come back to Rathji. But today? This just reaks of scum desperation

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You think so. Then lynch me and when I flip town you will see I am absolutely right. Give me any proof Rathji is town. Saying he is a comfirmed townie is why we are losing this game.

Doesn't like us considering townies as confirmed. I won't dwell on this much more, as it is already fresh in everyone's memory.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Also this talk of comfirmed townies has to stop too. The only one that confirm townies is the cop. Many scum powers can also be seen as town powers and they would be smart to use them that way at times to add to the confusion. You don't think they are just going to sit by and do nothing do you? That was tried in previous mafia games and the town won every time. They are going to try and fool us by being a wolf in sheeps clothing. They might even have a few members help the townies out in the early stages to secure their members as being suspected of being town.

Here is his response where he reveals powers. He also mentioned turning down a one show bullet proof vest ability from The guardians. I didn't quote it here, but do we have records of anyone who is suspected mafia accepting and using a guardian/eternal power?
- At any rate, his "Hard to lynch" power screams mafia. I can't think of a reason where a townie would want someone who is town would want to make the town's main way of killing people harder to the point where it would essentially stop a given person from being lynched and possibly cost the town the day..

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I have received a one shot doctor power from Mazrim. Hopefully it works. I think at this stage disclosing what my two powers are is fine because it will tell everyone why I have not done any night actions. Both of my abilities are pretty much a self judgement call. Ability one: I can make someone very hard to lynch. Everybody has to vote for them or it is no lynch. I have not been confident on using this on anyone who has been on the verge of being lynched and it is a night action which makes it even harder.
2: I can make someone's vote count for two on the next day. Again, when would I use this so far? Also a night power.
I figured GGG was unlynchable after the first go, we wasted a day there we could not afford. We ned to re-focus here and finally get a scum. Also, who are we thinking we should protect with the doctor ability I was given?

HG called him out on this:

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Diss how come you were on Rathji about his power being anti-town? Your power of making someone almost unlynchable could be seen as anti-town, if you are mafia and one of your buddies is in trouble you can make them pretty much unlynchable. Also now that the numbers are getting down having a double vote could be huge in manipulating the outcome of the game.

I'm not saying you are mafia, but I find it weird you accuse Rathji of having an anti-town power when you have 2 that could be viewed as anti-town.

That is pretty much all I have. It isn't air tight by any means, but enough for my vote for tomorrow to be on him for now.

[GGG]

So I am not big on the Squiggs vote. I keep flip flopping.

My gut says Oling, Girly, Diss are scum.

squiggs96 (6): Oling_Roachinen, GGG, Delgar, GirlySports, dissentowner, hmmhmmcamo

This day 2 vote had both girly and diss at late onto Squiggs when it was in doubt who would be lynched. Did they both vote away from hmm to get town cred? Were they voting on their own guy when the lynch was still in doubt. I don't see how diss and girly and squigss can all be scum.

Aeneas's power of watcher is better for town and makes up for the no cop
The tracker is better for scum and doesn't have much utility for the town
Girly picked the worst power for town to lynch

And the way both girly and diss defended me on the second lynch of me was weird.

Both girly and diss declined powers, no suspicious scum has ever accepted.

Also the extra invites to everyone started going out after I had posted that scum weren't receiving invites.

I really want to lynch girly but the floating extra vote makes it difficult as we might lose buy doing it. If Diss is scum and has the two vote thing. We lose if we don't lynch him tonight. We are 8-4 miss, 6-4, diss adds two votes to someone to force a tie so no lynch, scum wins.

So if it's equally probable that diss and Squiggs are scum. I don't think both are scum we should lynch Diss.

unvote
vote dissentowner

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by GGG

Starseed/Drury can you check your vote lists to confirm.

Oling's only vote on GirlySports came on Day 7

And if it's easy can we find out how much squigs, diss, oling, and girly have voted for each other.

The way I have my spreadsheet setup, kinda easy.

Squiggs' Votes:

Voted Oling on Day 7

Dissentower's Votes:

Voted Squiggs on Day 1
Voted Squiggs on Day 2
Voted Squiggs on Day 3
Voted GirlySports on Day 6
Voted GirlySports and Squiggs (twice) on Day 7

Oling's Votes:

Voted Squiggs (twice) on Day 1
Voted Squiggs on Day 2
Voted Squiggs (twice) and GirlySports on Day 7

GirlySports' Votes:

Voted Squiggs on Day 2
Voted Dissentower on Day 7

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Started the ball rolling on character reveal. At this point it wasn't completely sure to everyone that it was random. There is also some info to be gained from this, but not a whole ton

I do think it's more-or-less random, we weren't going to predict peoples roles based on their characters, but what I have noticed is that our flavour does make some sense with regards to our abilities. Some of the obvious ones, like Peach being the princess, didn't happen though. I'm sure Mazrim was forced to shoehorn abilities so some probably make less sense than others but:

Rathji's PK starstorm blocking out the night makes sense.
GGG's wireframe and being unlynchable makes sense.
Hockeyguy15's rewind time with the master sword makes sense.
Drury18's Divine Judgement I can't seem to really find much info on, might be one of the abilities that was shoehorned in.
Timbo's bucket makes some sense.


Yoshi being beloved and loyal is up in the air.
I think the villians in Bowser and Deedee will probably make the least amount of sense but when I think about it, having the 2 villians as mafia would be super obvious of Mazrim so he would avoid that.

My flavour (paraphrasing) is that I use my renowned bounty hunting skills and my championship racing abilities to track someone each night.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Falcon
Captain Falcon is a racer and bounty hunter.

Maybe Squiggs96, Dissentowner, and Aeneas can post their flavour and see if it makes some sense?