2014 Training Camp Cuts. UPD: Oct 5 - Baertschi, Jooris and Ortio cut

[djsFlames]

I don't care what they say, Yonkman clearly showed he was a cut above the rest. I thought we were rewarding size? Damn them. Damn them all.

[Brad Marsh]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Roster decisions are not locked in on October 5, dude. That's the point. Just because we ran out of pre-season games does not mean that the Treliving and Hartley aren't still evaluating. They still want to see if Setoguchi can do in the future what he used to in the past. He's going to get more time so they can answer that question. Setoguchi isn't in the same place as guys like Jooris and Baertschi are. Those two can still grow and improve in Adirondack while the team continues to evaluate. But Setoguchi is a one-and-done scenario. He goes on waivers and he's done with the club. All his making the opening day roster means is that they aren't willing to give up on him on the basis of an insignificant number of pre-season games.

The fact that the Flames organization does not work the way you (and others) personally want it to does not create a credibility problem.

The organization can do whatever it likes, but I don't see any issue whatsoever with fans calling it out for saying one thing and doing another.

Jooris outplayed Setoguchi by any measure, and yet he's the one clearing out his locker.

Why don't we let Setoguchi prove his worth in the AHL? Let him earn his way into the lineup. He certainly didn't do it during camp.

I don't even have a problem with the team keeping Setoguchi over Jooris, and the reasons you've cited in support of that decision are fine by me. But then don't claim that roster spots are always earned and never given. That's the disconnect. The only thing Setoguchi did to earn his ongoing place with the team was to sign the one-way deal.

[RyZ]

Anybody that thinks Poirier has a snowballs chance in hell next season is fooling themselves.

[DOOM]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Anybody that thinks Poirier has a snowballs chance in hell next season is fooling themselves.

What?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rerun

For all those who feel the Flames did the right thing in keeping Setoguchi and sending Jooris down.... please explain to me what advantage there is in having Seto in the lineup rather than Jooris?

Other than improving our chances in the 2015 draft of course...

Are the Flames really a better team with Seto here? I don't think so.

Do you seriously think the team is materially different either way?

1) Setoguchi could return an asset if he rights his career (and is gone if he doesn't)

2) Jooris gets more ice-time and a chance to work on his offense in Addy

3) the culture in Addy should be excellent as they will likely be really good.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by DOOM

What?

He's saying that there is no way in hell that a rookie will ever beat out a veteran for a spot on this team.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

Hanowski, Hathaway or BVB can fit in on that spot.

forgot about Hathaway. I would like to see something like:

Baertschi - Granlund - Poirier
Ferland - Reinhart - Jooris
Agostino - Arnold - Hathaway
Van Brabant - Knight - Wolf
Hanowski

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Anybody that thinks Poirier has a snowballs chance in hell next season is fooling themselves.

If healthy, he would have likely had a strong camp, based on play last year. I was hoping for something along the lines of Sven's performance. But if he actually skated well and was sent down, CP would have exploded seeing a strong legit scoring RW prospect was held off the roster in favour of Seto and Jones.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Do you seriously think the team is materially different either way? YES

1) Setoguchi could return an asset if he rights his career (and is gone if he doesn't) - Not likely... given his track record.

2) Jooris gets more ice-time and a chance to work on his offense in Addy - so would he here .. its not like were overflowing with talented Right Wingers

3) the culture in Addy should be excellent as they will likely be really good.- the culture here is great too

See bolded answers above.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Rerun

He's saying that there is no way in hell that a rookie will ever beat out a veteran for a spot on this team.

You mean like Gaudreau?

Or Monahan and Baertschi last year?

Or Bouma and Brodie the prior year?

Or Backlund prior to that?

There could be several next year (Bennett, Poirier, our 1st, Wotherspoon, Sieloff) so they better get plenty of ice-time this year

[Fischy13]

Most people here need to chill out. This is exactly what should be taking place. Sending these guys down will allow them to work towards a championship team, and develope in a winning culture. It also allows Treliving a chance to get a draft pick for veterans. They can build some value and get even a 3rd round pick which can then be packaged to move up, or make a quality for quantity trade. Do you think these young guys will benefit getting their arses kicked night in and night out in the NHL in a losing environment. You don't want them exposed to that.

Anyone recall that Sportsnet clip from McLean last year. What Burkes advice was to him when he first got the GM position in Columbus. He said, finish last for 2-3 years and build on that, you will last a long time and keep your job. McLean said he tried to win now and couldn't get it done and was fired a few years later.

Management knows what they are doing. Yeah they throw out buzz phrases about meritocracy, but what ar they supposed to say? That they want to keep the veterans to tank and trade them for picks?

Putting the young guys in Addy to win a championship and develope in a winning culture, building value in veterans to trade for extra pieces, and use those veterans to finish in a top 3 pick of the sweepstakes is exactly how year two of the rebuild should look like. This is positive on all aspects.

[AcGold]

The reason you send down Jooris is because his window of opportunity is much larger than Setogouchis. Seto will get a 10-15 game tryout and that may be it for his career if he can't turn things around. These decisions aren't made purely based on icing the best team opening day but takes into account the future asset value of the team. We should be elated that this even an issue. Jooris' play will push Setogouchi to get better and vice versa. A few years ago the only guy that had a shot at getting in the lineup was Baertschi and now we have nearly a dozen guys all trying to crack the lineup.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by DOOM

What?

With the 3-5 guys that out played vets this year going down for "seasoning" in the AHL plus Bennett plus the likely lottery pick we get this year there won't be room until 2017 at least.

Do you expect they dress 5-7 rookies next year? Unless Poirier absolutely blows the doors off the AHL this rookie season and leads Addy by a large margin he has no chance to get a regular spot on the big club for years to come yet.

[Enoch Root]

Jooris needs to work on his offense. He will get top 6 minutes and PP time in Addy. He would NOT get that here.

[flamefan74]

Originally Posted by Rerun

For all those who feel the Flames did the right thing in keeping Setoguchi and sending Jooris down.... please explain to me what advantage there is in having Seto in the lineup rather than Jooris?

Other than improving our chances in the 2015 draft of course...

Are the Flames really a better team with Seto here? I don't think so.

What advantage is there to keeping Jooris in the lineup over Seto? Instead of being a 28th place team, they become a 27th place team? Lets be honest. Jooris is not going to be a magical savior that puts this team into the playoffs. In fact. this team probably finishes in the same place regardless of which one is in the lineup. So in this context, you give Seto a chance to prove something in the next month. If it doesn't work out, you turf him. You are getting way too emotional way too early.

[Brad Marsh]

Originally Posted by DOOM

Good lord.

Fair enough - perhaps that comment is a little on the drama queen side.

I'm just trying to say that as a fan I'm a lot more excited about players like Sven and Jooris at this point in time, particularly in the context of where the team is right now in the rebuild, and would rather see them in the lineup compared to other marginal NHL veterans that have apparently earned their way onto the roster.

[442scotty]

I like Jooris but.... Spots are needed for Poirier, Ferland, Granlund, Bennett and hopefully Sven ...maybe even McD !... Jooris is the least of our worries

[FBI]

Not that disappointed about the cuts themselves. Just annoyed at being strung along by the coaches bs about meritocracy.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by RyZ

With the 3-5 guys that out played vets this year going down for "seasoning" in the AHL plus Bennett plus the likely lottery pick we get this year there won't be room until 2017 at least.

Do you expect they dress 5-7 rookies next year? Unless Poirier absolutely blows the doors off the AHL this rookie season and leads Addy by a large margin he has no chance to get a regular spot on the big club for years to come yet.

Our roster will look much different around game #60 this season than it does today. I could see Glencross (trade), Setoguchi (minors), and McGrattan (trade) all gone by then, and you've got to expect atleast a couple injuries as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if Poirier plays enough games this year that he loses his Calder eligibility for 2015/16 season (26GP).

[kyuss275]

Lol out posters being pissed that Setoguchi makes roster over youngsters. Setoguchi played himself to the pressbox. That is not a place for a youngster like Sven or Jooris.

With Jones being hurt most of preseason they sure as hell were not going to send him to the AHL without giving him a chance in regular season to earn his big contract, nor is that contract tradeable. If you want to blame anybody about Jones then blame Feaster for, in my mind, his 2nd worst trade.(jbo return is #1)