YLYL Thread Sexism Discussion (split from Gay Teen thread).

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by troutman

Perhaps it was her favorite part to mock?

What if there were Ice Guys? Dudes in cut-offs and leather vests?

Or, you know, the fact that a lot of women really aren't offended by cheerleaders or "ice girls" at all.

I hope that if you ever went to a gym and saw a buff, fit male personal trainer in under armor helping a middle aged woman do sit ups that you would go complain at the front desk that the trainer should be wearing a shirt that isn't as tight.

[PsYcNeT]

I like how these arguments always circle back to both "some/half of/most people are okay with this so that makes it okay!" and false dichotomies.

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Shawnski

Was at a game several years back with my buddy Chris. Seated to my right were two very attractive young ladies who were quite knowledgeable in hockey and we hit it off well. As Chris is married and I am as old as dirt, there was no "hitting on" or anything like that, just good banter between the four of us.

During a break in play, the ice girls come out to clean the ice.

The young lady next to me leans forward and says, quote:

"This is my favourite part".

Let that sink in for a moment.

So their looks are all that count? Does that somehow validate them as human beings? That's the whole point of this thread. You/society are disgusting, etc.

[RyZ]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Like I said, the Flames outfits aren't the worst offenders out there. There are some pretty questionable ones for girls to be cleaning the ice in.

You find girls dressed in similar skin to fabric ratios at any number of clubs in the city on any given night of the week, not to mention gyms, etc. Ban bars/clubs/gyms as well?

[Regulator75]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

If that was her favorite part of the night then she is flat out NOT a hockey fan. Don't know what else I'm supposed to get from that.

Perhaps the two girls were a couple and she was actually enjoying the ice girls scoop up shaved ice.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by RyZ

You find girls dressed in similar skin to fabric ratios at any number of clubs in the city on any given night of the week, not to mention gyms, etc. Ban bars/clubs/gyms as well?

This is a poor arguing technique and violates at least two logical fallacies.

[Barbecue]

Keep it as is 147 52.13%

[troutman]

Tyranny of the Bare Majority

[PsYcNeT]

One out of two people recommend maintaining the status quo.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by troutman

Tyranny of the Bare Majority

No kidding. I don't know why there's a contingent of posters who keep trying to make the point that because the "keep it as is" option has the slimmest of majorities on a site with an overwhelmingly male-dominated membership that it somehow equates to a mandate for the status quo.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I like how these arguments always circle back to both "some/half of/most people are okay with this so that makes it okay!" and false dichotomies.

To be fair, I don't know a single person who is offended by the Flames ice girls. They're not scantily clad (unlike some other teams girls) and can skate like hell.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by troutman

Tyranny of the Bare Majority

At last I've found the perfect title for my upcoming novel about a dystopian nudist civilization!

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Nyah

To be fair, I don't know a single person who is offended by the Flames ice girls. They're not scantily clad (unlike some other teams girls) and can skate like hell.

Not to put too fine of a point on it, but anecdotal evidence has very little weight in almost every large-scope discussion that has existed ever.

[Barbecue]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

No kidding. I don't know why there's a contingent of posters who keep trying to make the point that because the "keep it as is" option has the slimmest of majorities on a site with an overwhelmingly male-dominated membership that it somehow equates to a mandate for the status quo.

Because it's still a majority?

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by RyZ

You find girls dressed in similar skin to fabric ratios at any number of clubs in the city on any given night of the week, not to mention gyms, etc. Ban bars/clubs/gyms as well?

There's a slight difference between a bar/club/gym and a hockey game which is supposedly a family experience. Also there's a difference between women choosing their own outfit to wear to a club/bar vs. what a professional hockey team makes its uniform for its ice girls. I have no issue with the Flames ice girls' outfits, and several other teams are fine (Penguins have their "patrol"--which actually includes men and women, and the women are wearing pants and shirts that show just a bit of midriff. Really tame, honestly). But the examples shown in the post a few back are pretty obviously what women talk about when we complain about the "ice girls."

Like let's be honest, if I go to a game and make a comment about how I find Kris Letang incredibly attractive, some idiot is going to pull the "you're only here because you think he's cute!" crap (and yes, this has happened regularly). But if a guy is ogling an ice girl, no one suggests that he's only at the game for the eye candy.

The point in the article about just including women: give us jersey sizing options that work. More fitted jerseys but in normal regular team colors, because not everything for women has to be sparkly and pink. I don't want you to market specifically to me, I don't need a "hockey and heels" educational thing. Just maybe put the ice girls in reasonable clothing and give me some jersey options that fit decently on a woman's body. Women understand the game as well as men, allow them opportunities for front office jobs. Embrace female reporters/media members. It's really not that much, we're not looking for special treatment, we just want to be treated like anyone else involved in the game.

This isn't a CP problem, or an NHL problem, this is a problem that pervades every single part of life on a pretty regular basis.

[Barbecue]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

One out of two people recommend maintaining the status quo.

more accurately 52 out of 100 people

or 26 out of 50

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

The point in the article about just including women: give us jersey sizing options that work. More fitted jerseys but in normal regular team colors, because not everything for women has to be sparkly and pink.

The jersey issue applies to men as well, in my opinion. Jerseys are not designed to fit like regular shirts. I`m an average sized guy and find myself swimming in my Flames jerseys. I would prefer something with a more slim fit cut but it is what it is.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Oh god…Barbecue thanked my post. What have I done!!!???

[Barbecue]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

There's a slight difference between a bar/club/gym and a hockey game which is supposedly a family experience. Also there's a difference between women choosing their own outfit to wear to a club/bar vs. what a professional hockey team makes its uniform for its ice girls. I have no issue with the Flames ice girls' outfits, and several other teams are fine (Penguins have their "patrol"--which actually includes men and women, and the women are wearing pants and shirts that show just a bit of midriff. Really tame, honestly). But the examples shown in the post a few back are pretty obviously what women talk about when we complain about the "ice girls."

Like let's be honest, if I go to a game and make a comment about how I find Kris Letang incredibly attractive, some idiot is going to pull the "you're only here because you think he's cute!" crap (and yes, this has happened regularly). But if a guy is ogling an ice girl, no one suggests that he's only at the game for the eye candy.

The point in the article about just including women: give us jersey sizing options that work. More fitted jerseys but in normal regular team colors, because not everything for women has to be sparkly and pink. I don't want you to market specifically to me, I don't need a "hockey and heels" educational thing. Just maybe put the ice girls in reasonable clothing and give me some jersey options that fit decently on a woman's body. Women understand the game as well as men, allow them opportunities for front office jobs. Embrace female reporters/media members. It's really not that much, we're not looking for special treatment, we just want to be treated like anyone else involved in the game.

This isn't a CP problem, or an NHL problem, this is a problem that pervades every single part of life on a pretty regular basis.

Wouldn't it also be on the women too for allowing this to happen? Like the ice girls making a stand on wearing something degrading. Or women refusing not to be an "ice girl"

And as for the pink jerseys, wouldnt the demand speak for itself? if women don't like the pink versions, allow the market to adjust so the lack of sales show pink jerseys aren't selling to their expectations and later roll out with just women sized jerseys

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by troutman

Tyranny of the Bare Majority

That's one way of looking at it. Viewed in a different light, only 23% support not having a thread that includes pictures of scantily clad women in it.