Honest question as I know nothing about Kanye's music - how much of it does he produce himself and not without the help of some producing ninja?
Thats always a variable. Ghost producers/songwriters have been around forever. I'm sure Stevie Wonder has used them too.
No way of knowing but I've never heard of anyone accusing Kanye of overutilizing ghost producers before so I doubt it's too big of an issue. He is hated so much that I'm sure if he didn't write most of his stuff, it would've gotten out by now.
Oh weird. Is there a "Make a masterpiece" button on a computer?
Please, if it's so easy I'd love for you to show your music making prowess with a computer?
A) I don't listen to much Kanye, but I'm not sure masterpiece could be used to describe anything.
B) I don't think anyone thinks it's easy to create. The problem (mine anyways, and I think most) is that it's easy to replicate. You just play the track and you have your worldwide tour.
People that play instruments have to do it over and over and over again. It's the live experience that IMO just can't be replicated without actual music playing. Watching the DJ sway back and forth while he pushes a few buttons has nothing on a ripping guitar solo. Not even close.
Even just a solo artist running around singing/rapping to a track. I don't care how many back up dancers you have or blow up animals or pyrotechnics. I'll take one talented person sitting on a stool playing acoutsic guitar over it anyday.
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Last edited by Coach; 07-25-2014 at 12:54 PM.
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Name one big mainstream artist today that is on Stevie Wonder's level. I'll wait.
Dave Grohl
Between Nirvana and Foo Fighters, he's at least got 100 Million records sold and he's going on his 30 year's playing in bands. Plays a number of instruments. Been involved in a number of other successful acts like Them Crooked Vultures, Queens of the Stone Age, Nine Inch Nails, David Bowie.
If anyone is close to touching Stevie Wonder's level, it's him.
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Between Nirvana and Foo Fighters, he's at least got 100 Million records sold and he's going on his 30 year's playing in bands. Plays a number of instruments. Been involved in a number of other successful acts like Them Crooked Vultures, Queens of the Stone Age, Nine Inch Nails, David Bowie.
If anyone is close to touching Stevie Wonder's level, it's him.
Dave is not a great example. He'd be the first to admit what he is doing his derivative of others - ex. Bob Mould and The Pixies.
He is successful, and I like his band, but he is not ground-breaking.
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People that play instruments have to do it over and over and over again. It's the live experience that IMO just can't be replicated without actual music playing. Watching the DJ sway back and forth while he pushes a few buttons has nothing on a ripping guitar solo. Not even close.
That's just the nature of the genre and it's fans. Kanye preforms his music like every other hip hop artist, live vocals with a mix of live instruments and a back track.
Some "electronic" acts preform their songs live. Check out "Example" for some uh, examples. The thing is, EDM fans really don't like that and lots of acts who used to perform live have switched to DJ'ing (Calvin Harris, Ellie Goulding to name a couple). With EDM, it's more about the crowd, the party, the visuals and everything else syncing with the music and vice versa. That's why you still have good DJ sets and bad DJ sets. It's rarely about the actual quality of the DJing in terms of transitions and such and more about the song selection and how the whole experience comes together. Doing that with a live show, especially with such a complicated genre like EDM, which relies heavily on multiple synths and automated effects, rarely ends up working well unless the crowd is prepared for it (I.E. an acoustic show or a rock festival).
Examples music is great but their set at Ultra Europe last week was probably my least favorite set for this reason.
And you still haven't answered my request from the other thread, to provide an example of an EDM track that requires even mediocre performance skill at the piano/keyboard.
Is EDM what used to be called Techno? Or is it some particular niche?
I always think it means Edmonton.
Pretty much.
EDM = Electronic Dance Music
Now just don't make the same mistake I did and assume someone talking about 'hardcore music' is referring to Minor Threat, for they to may be talking about techno music.
Last edited by Regular_John; 07-25-2014 at 01:35 PM.
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Is EDM what used to be called Techno? Or is it some particular niche?
When i see it, I always think it means Edmonton.
According to Polak, seeing as ravers don't like live performances, it should be renamed EDN. Electronic Dance Noise.
Music: Combinations of pitches and rhythms produced by voice or instrument. A laptop is not a musical instrument. It is a composition tool.
To be fair, guys like Kid Koala can use turntables as a genuine musical instrument for spontaneous performance.
And don't get me wrong, half a lifetime ago I also had recently discovered ecstasy and loved raving. But then the drugs wore off and I realized "this s*** sucks."
That's just the nature of the genre and it's fans. Kanye preforms his music like every other hip hop artist, live vocals with a mix of live instruments and a back track.
Some "electronic" acts preform their songs live. Check out "Example" for some uh, examples. The thing is, EDM fans really don't like that and lots of acts who used to perform live have switched to DJ'ing (Calvin Harris, Ellie Goulding to name a couple). With EDM, it's more about the crowd, the party, the visuals and everything else syncing with the music and vice versa. That's why you still have good DJ sets and bad DJ sets. It's rarely about the actual quality of the DJing in terms of transitions and such and more about the song selection and how the whole experience comes together. Doing that with a live show, especially with such a complicated genre like EDM, which relies heavily on multiple synths and automated effects, rarely ends up working well unless the crowd is prepared for it (I.E. an acoustic show or a rock festival).
Examples music is great but their set at Ultra Europe last week was probably my least favorite set for this reason.
This is all well and good, but you're never going to convince someone who loves instrumental music that it is better. And that's just musical tastes.
I think if you play and instrument yourself, you have a lot more appreciation for the skill and dedication it takes to really be the best. And so to have people that just kind of mix up other peoples tracks to form their own, or even if they made themselves, it will just never be the same as watching someone play an instrument live. With unexpected riffs, departures from the recorded version of the song, massive room for improv, that's the type of thing that excites people who play instruments.
Dancing to the same beat and the same choreographed set witht he same drops and blah blah blah, is just not the same type of experience. That doesn't mean it can't be fun. But, at least for me, watching a live music performance is not necessarily just about having fun, its about listening to interesting music. And that is fun.
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According to Polak, seeing as ravers don't like live performances, it should be renamed EDN. Electronic Dance Noise.
Music: Combinations of pitches and rhythms produced by voice or instrument. A laptop is not a musical instrument. It is a composition tool.
To be fair, guys like Kid Koala can use turntables as a genuine musical instrument for spontaneous performance.
And don't get me wrong, half a lifetime ago I also had recently discovered ecstasy and loved raving. But then the drugs wore off and I realized "this s*** sucks."
Curious what your stance is on controllerism?
Example. nsfw
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That is sweet. And most certainly falls under the definition of instrument when played like that. I don't know a lot about it, but even if there was some canned backing tracks going on underneath, its still a hell of a lot more interesting than a DJ.
And you still haven't answered my request from the other thread, to provide an example of an EDM track that requires even mediocre performance skill at the piano/keyboard.
The flaw with your request is that literally 99% of EDM is played on a keyboard when it's recorded. Midi. But I'll give some examples of songs that have a strong piano presence in them. Don't have my ipod on me but lets see what I have just scrolling through what I have on my phone.
Any Above & Beyond track. A good example of a beautiful piano based song by them I'd recommend checking out would be "Small Moments". Also, watch their acoustic set. They perform their songs on "real" instruments, accompanied by a full orchestra. It's epic.
ATB has a few as well, off the top of my head the intro to "In And Out of Love". He also has a live concert series with "real" instruments, if you want to check it out.
Axwell - Nothing But Love. Not really impressive but it is a piano based song.
Cosmic Gate has a few but none of them are really "piano" songs. Just some great trance tracks that have piano parts in it. "Nothing Ever Lasts" would be my favorite. Falling Back has some piano in it to if I recall correctly, but it's rather cheesy.
I know Gareth Emery has a ton of live instruments on his tracks. I only have one of his songs on my phone that isn't piano based BUT if you want to check out some great lyrics for an EDM song (RARE) I really recommend listenting to "U" by him and there is some piano in it. But nothing special, just some chords.
Jasper Forks - River Flows in You. (Hate him but it's piano based...)
You (Mike Bugout Remix)
Porter Robinson has some piano work in his tracks. The intro to Language
Alright, I'm bored of this exercise but if you want more examples let me know. Keep in mind, this is EDM, it's mostly synths (hell most of these pianos are probably synthesized) which would be recorded using a midi keyboard, but it's meant to make you dance so don't expect these songs to have virtuoso piano breakdowns.
Alright, I'm bored of this exercise but if you want more examples let me know. Keep in mind, this is EDM, it's mostly synths (hell most of these pianos are probably synthesized) which would be recorded using a midi keyboard, but it's meant to make you dance so don't expect these songs to have virtuoso piano breakdowns.
Stevie Wonder makes me dance, has virtuoso piano breakdowns, and lots of synthesizer.
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