Flames 2014 Summer Development Camp July 4 - July 9

[Drury18]

A few guys have been signing during breaks or after the drills as they are coming off the ice.

If you go down, go stand by the glass basically underneath where the seating is and there will be a roped off section. That's where they sign and where the crowd grows as they are coming off. I usually just watch practice there instead of trying to get downstairs in time.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by boogerz

Arnold, Gaudreau, Kulak... the fourth round has been gold for the Flames. Arnold looked a step ahead of everyone in Group B today

Carroll was the best of the walk-ons today. Didn't look out of place with the Flames guys, and would be deserving of a contract if he keeps this up

I'd be curious to see how Coda Gordon compares to this group of prospects. He certainly can't be worse than a few of the walk-ons

Isn't Carroll a flames draft pick?

[Nehkara]

Originally Posted by T@T

Isn't Carroll a flames draft pick?

Yes he is.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You probably are like a lot of Flames fans and just became aware of the team around 2004. But the Calgary Flames existed even before 2004. And that team had a player who still holds the team record for points in a season who did not have a heart.

But even if you did not know that the Flames existed before 2004, a simple understanding of the English language would indicate that I was referring to someone other than Gaudreau. When I said "hopefully this magic man has a heart" the use of my words clearly indicates there was a different magic man who did not have a heart.

Sorry if I started a fight! Kent Nilsson was the original 'magic man'. Brilliant when he wanted to be, but often disinterested. Johnny is one of the most motivated players ever, but also magical. Here's Nilsson's record:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...y.php?pid=3977

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

...I'm very excited about the potential he brings, and him dangling around other prospects is great. That and his performance at the World Championships, these are all good things. But the same questions around his size haven't gone away. We have absolutely no inclination this will translate to the next level against much bigger, more physical players. While there are always questions about how prospects will transition to the NHL, he's simply another level of wildcard due to his minuscule stature.

Here's the thing. There are a number of posters who have been watching Gaudreau VERY CLOSELY since his first college season in 2011. Since he started playing elite level juniour hockey, he has not merely impressed, he has virtually smashed expectations and projections. He had his first actual taste of professional hockey that is approaching NHL levels in the 2014 WCs, and once again, he obliterated expectations. These are not guarantees by any stretch—and I don't believe anyone is claiming otherwise. However, the long and growing list of seriously impressive accomplishments in Gaudreau's relatively short hockey career to date are in fact good indications (I don't think you actually meant "inclination") that lead those of us who have been fixated on his exasperating upward trajectory over the course of the past three years to think that he absolutely can be an impact NHL player—size be damned.

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Then we start throwing out "best prospect in Flames history"? With the likes of Niewendyk, MacInnis, Gilmour, Hull, Iginla, Suter, Roberts, Phaneuf etc, I just can't get behind that. I'm as hopeful as anyone he becomes a top 6 player with the Flames, and I do think he can do that, but it's absolute crazy talk IMO we're placing him above some of the Hall of Fame players that have played with the Flames.

On the surface of it, it would seem so. But I think the high prise is mostly a product of the well worn tendency that Gaudreau is developing for doing things at every level of hockey in which he plays that no one has ever seen before. Watching him at the WCs this year (just to offer one example) was a special treat—not just because he is a Flames prospect—but primarily because he was thinking and playing the game fairly consistently on another level that actually transformed it.

I'm not kidding. He is THAT good, and the Flames have never had a prospect like that. Not ever.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

...Then we start throwing out "best prospect in Flames history"? With the likes of Niewendyk, MacInnis, Gilmour, Hull, Iginla, Suter, Roberts, Phaneuf etc, I just can't get behind that. I'm as hopeful as anyone he becomes a top 6 player with the Flames, and I do think he can do that, but it's absolute crazy talk IMO we're placing him above some of the Hall of Fame players that have played with the Flames.

Maybe a different way to look at this is to qualify Gaudreau's significance to the organisation differently, and by arguing that he could be the most naturally gifted or skilled prospect in Flames history. He certainly should be considered one of them. As a comparison, in the mid-1990's there was a well worn notion that the most skilled player on the planet was Alexei Kovalev. Team-mates and rival players positively raved about what he was capable of doing, and yet, he never fully realised that potential because of limitations in his attitude, drive, competitiveness, etc.

Gaudreau has that kind of skill—it's obvious to anyone who watches him. Of course, there are also real, possible limitations on his ability to harness it because of his very small size. I think this is what you are objecting to, but quite frankly, we've been hearing about how much of a determent this will be to his development over and over ever since the day he was drafted. HE'S been hearing about it ever since he started playing. And yet, it hasn't manifested as a problem at any point in his hockey career. The reason for the incredible optimism is a product of Gaudreau's own history, which is consistently refuting concerns about his size over and over again. I, for one, am at the point now where I can't help but extend him the benefit of doubt, and I can't help my inability to contain the excitement.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Here's the thing. There are a number of posters who have been watching Gaudreau VERY CLOSELY since his first college season in 2011. Since he started playing elite level juniour hockey, he has not merely impressed, he has virtually smashed expectations and projections. He had his first actual taste of professional hockey that is approaching NHL levels in the 2014 WCs, and once again, he obliterated expectations. These are not guarantees by any stretch—and I don't believe anyone is claiming otherwise. However, the long and growing list of seriously impressive accomplishments in Gaudreau's relatively short hockey career to date are in fact good indications (I don't think you actually meant "inclination") that lead those of us who have been fixated on his exasperating upward trajectory over the course of the past three years to think that he absolutely can be an impact NHL player—size be damned.


On the surface of it, it would seem so. But I think the high prise is mostly a product of the well worn tendency that Gaudreau is developing for doing things at every level of hockey in which he plays that no one has ever seen before. Watching him at the WCs this year (just to offer one example) was a special treat—not just because he is a Flames prospect—but primarily because he was thinking and playing the game fairly consistently on another level that actually transformed it.

I'm not kidding. He is THAT good, and the Flames have never had a prospect like that. Not ever.

We've yet to see Johnny play against elite NHLers (the WC this year comprised mostly KHL players and second tier NHL players, with a few exceptions). Still, I certainly wouldn't bet against Gaudreau excelling at the next level.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

You probably are like a lot of Flames fans and just became aware of the team around 2004. But the Calgary Flames existed even before 2004. And that team had a player who still holds the team record for points in a season who did not have a heart.

But even if you did not know that the Flames existed before 2004, a simple understanding of the English language would indicate that I was referring to someone other than Gaudreau. When I said "hopefully this magic man has a heart" the use of my words clearly indicates there was a different magic man who did not have a heart.

I've been a Flames fan since they moved to Calgary. My 'simple' understanding of both the Flames and the English language is enough to get the reference. If you understood either, and what that kid has battled through to get to this point - you wouldn't question Gaudreau's heart.
I expect your uncle thinks you're a condescending ####### too

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

I've been a Flames fan since they moved to Calgary. My 'simple' understanding of both the Flames and the English language is enough to get the reference. If you understood either, and what that kid has battled through to get to this point - you wouldn't question Gaudreau's heart.
I expect your uncle thinks you're a condescending ####### too

He wasn't questioning Gaudreau's heart, he was making a funny. Granted one that more than a few didn't get

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Maybe a different way to look at this is to qualify Gaudreau's significance to the organisation differently, and by arguing that he could be the most naturally gifted or skilled prospect in Flames history.

Absolutely, I think his name is in the mix for this. I am not arguing against his tantalizing skill. I just caution anyone calling him the Flames best prospect ever.

I like your example of Kovalev. Another example of a prospect with extremely gifted puck skills was Ales Hemsky. The Oilers hype is always extra "special", but he was touted as their most skilled prospect ever (by MacT I think?).

Skill is great, and we've had such a shortage of it through the prospect pipeline for so many years now, I certainly get why people are excited, myself included.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Of course, there are also real, possible limitations on his ability to harness it because of his very small size. I think this is what you are objecting to, but quite frankly, we've been hearing about how much of a determent this will be to his development over and over ever since the day he was drafted.

You are correct.

Here's the thing with Johnny: he is the biggest wild card in the organization. If everything works out perfectly, if his small stature plays well at the NHL level the way he has everywhere else, then he's a blue chip prospect as good as any other in the organization right now.

But there's also the flip side. The kid is smaller than any prospect I've ever seen - he's built like a 15 year old kid. And maybe the cerebral nature of his game will allow this to be a non-issue - who can possibly know right now?

For any undersized player it's an uphill battle, but for Johnny even more. I don't think we've seen a player as small as him EVER in the NHL. I know people will point to Gerbe, but he's 25 lbs heavier than Johnny on an even shorter frame. So I guess my long-winded point is in order for Johnny to reach star status in the NHL, he'll have to do something that has rarely if ever been done before.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

JG thinks the game at God tier. Watching him gives you the impression that his hockey IQ is at a multi dimensional level. I don't know if anyone noticed, but he seems to communicate a lot, which almost seems like he's directing his chess pieces (team mates) into position for the kill. He's not just using his skill, he's also using whatever that is on the ice (team mates and opposition, etc) to his advantage.

[PeteMoss]

I'm concerned for Gaudreau's safety with some of these man crushes.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'm concerned for Gaudreau's safety with some of these man crushes.

Good point. Gaudreau probably has more to fear from stalkers than goons.

[sureLoss]

http://www.calgarysun.com/2014/07/06...calgary-flames

Make no mistake, though, Calgary Flames prospect Mark Jankowski isn’t a forgotten man, either.

“As I told him (Sunday), ‘Don’t be thinking that anybody is writing you off,’ ” said Flames GM Brad Treliving.

It’s been less than two weeks since Treliving climbed onto the stage at Wells Fargo Center and cashed in the fourth-overall pick in the 2014 NHL Draft on Kingston Frontenacs standout Sam Bennett.

The analysts applauded the move, predicting that Bennett and soon-to-be sophomore Sean Monahan would form a future one-two punch at centre. Nobody seemed to be saying much about Jankowski, the Flames’ first-rounder — No. 21 overall — two years ago and another natural middle-man.

“I don’t really pay attention to that,” Jankowski insisted Sunday at the Flames’ summer development camp, where he’s a spectator for on-ice sessions due to a hip injury.

“All I know is I’m really excited to be a Flame, and I know the management here is really excited to have me … Since the new management came in, I’ve had some talks with them, and they made me feel welcome and made me feel like I’m a part of this, like I’m a part of their plan.”

Just to be clear, Jankowski isn’t part of the plan for next winter.

Former Flames GM Jay Feaster was adamant when he drafted the lanky centre from Hamilton that he was a long-term investment, and that hasn’t changed under the new regime.

Jankowski is eligible to spend two more seasons with the NCAA’s Providence College Friars.

It’s far too soon to book an arrival date at the Saddledome.

“I think my development has gone pretty well so far,” Jankowski said. “Every day, every year, I just want to get a little bit better — and I feel like I’m doing that.”

[getbak]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

I'm concerned for Gaudreau's safety with some of these man crushes.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Here's the thing with Johnny: he is the biggest wild card in the organization. If everything works out perfectly, if his small stature plays well at the NHL level the way he has everywhere else, then he's a blue chip prospect as good as any other in the organization right now.

Agreed, and so far so good. I think that an important added note here is that Gaudreau's developmental history is already trending in this direction.

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

But there's also the flip side. The kid is smaller than any prospect I've ever seen - he's built like a 15 year old kid. And maybe the cerebral nature of his game will allow this to be a non-issue - who can possibly know right now?

We can't obviously know, but by the same token, his exceptional trajectory certainly provides a healthy measure of optimism that he should succeed. If he hasn't faltered yet, why should we suddenly expect him to now?

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

For any undersized player it's an uphill battle, but for Johnny even more. I don't think we've seen a player as small as him EVER in the NHL. I know people will point to Gerbe, but he's 25 lbs heavier than Johnny on an even shorter frame. So I guess my long-winded point is in order for Johnny to reach star status in the NHL, he'll have to do something that has rarely if ever been done before.

I'm not altogether fond of the Gerbe comparison, simply because Gaudreau's game is SO different. FYI, Gerbe was 160 lbs in his draft year. But that's just it: Gaudreau's game is SO different from just about any other player, and this makes it difficult to draw comparisons.

As for other small players, Byron was 140 lbs when he was drafted. Like Gerbe, he also depends on playing a "grittier" game as a way to stick in the NHL, and like Gerbe, neither of these players has a comparable level of skill and on-ice IQ that Gaudreau possesses. Other small players, Cam Atkinson, Steve Sullivan, and Tyler Ennis, were all taller in their draft years, but also were judged to be severely underweight to play and succeed in the NHL. I would argue that Gaudreau probably a more skilled player than all of them, and that is the seminal point here: his elite level of skill sets him apart from all but only a fraction of hockey players.

You are right. Gaudreau will have to do something exceptional in order to succeed. But what you seem to be missing in all of this is that Gaudreau is an exceptional player. We should expect exceptional things from exceptional players, even those ones who are shorter and smaller than everyone else.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

I don't think we've seen a player as small as him EVER in the NHL

He wouldn't even be the smallest NHLer if he played this year.

For a good comparison, Brian Gionta is currently 5'7" and 175lbs. Johnny is 5'8" and 165lbs (possibly heavier). Why don't people worry about Gionta getting hurt??



http://www.sportingcharts.com/articl...n-the-nhl.aspx

[Rick M.]

Do we actually know Johnny's true height? I've seen him listed at 5'7" to 5'9".

[puckedoff]

Are there prospects other than Johnny Hockey in this dev camp?

[sureLoss]

Aaron Vickers @AAVickers
ICYMI: #Flames dev. camp scrimmage will be streamed live on CalgaryFlames.com with @Fan960Steinberg and @theryanleslie with the call!