Bob Mckenzie: Flames could have had Nyquist and Tatar for Bouwmeester

[dino7c]

I don't know if this rumor is true or not but I said at the time and continue to think there was no reason to trade Jaybo (who wasn't a pending UFA) 5 days or whatever before the deadline. Why not wait for the best possible deal? I don't think a 1st and 2 below average prospects was the best possible deal. Not to mention the fact Feaster himself said cap space was an asset gained from that deal, you know the cap space that WAS NEVER SPENT!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I think most of us knew the Iginla and Bouwmeester deals were weak when we didn't recognize any of the prospects coming back. Feaster did get 1sts which partially salvaged both deals but I think its clear a more skilled GM could've gotten more.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Why? at the time of the trade it would have been an awful trade and 99% of people on CP would have agreed.

Agreed. Not getting a 1st round pick would have had this place in an uproar. Hind sight is 20/20 and it's always easy to look back and say we could have gotten a better deal from someone else.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by icecube

Nyquist and Tatar is like trading for two first round picks. Both those guys at the time were ripe and as close to sure things as it gets. That would have been a HUGE trade for this franchise. It's trades like those that can turn a team around quickly. The Flames blew it.

Yes, we could dress a team entirely composed of (mostly small) LWs

Baertschi - Cammalleri - Hudler
Gaudreau - Byron - Nyquist
Tatar - Granlund - Hanowski
Glencross - Bouma - Galiardi (truculence line)
Agostino - Reinhart - Colborne
Van Brabant

5+ lines of LWs!!

Let's draft Dal Colle!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I think most of us knew the Iginla and Bouwmeester deals were weak when we didn't recognize any of the prospects coming back. Feaster did get 1sts which partially salvaged both deals but I think its clear a more skilled GM could've gotten more.

Outisde of the Detroit rumour we don't know what was offered by other teams. Feaster had some good people around him and probably got the best deal he could. For me getting a 1st round pick was a must.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Dion

Outisde of the Detroit rumour we don't know what was offered by other teams. Feaster had some good people around him and probably got the best deal he could. For me getting a 1st round pick was a must.

We didn't have to trade Bouwmeester that deadline.

More teams would've been able to fit him in during the summer.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Dion

Agreed. Not getting a 1st round pick would have had this place in an uproar. Hind sight is 20/20 and it's always easy to look back and say we could have gotten a better deal from someone else.

Tartar and Nyqvist are better than a late first so people wouldn't have complained.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

We didn't have to trade Bouwmeester that deadline.

More teams would've been able to fit him in during the summer.

yeah and definitely not 5 days before, been saying it for over a year now

what was the rush?

[Karl Racki]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Nothing at the time suggested both of them. THe rumours were one of them plus a 2nd.

Some things to keep in mind:

Nyquist will be 25 in September and is pretty much at his peak now

He will be a UFA in 4 years (or is it less?)

He is a smallish LW, the same size as Baertschi

In 3 or 4 years, when the Flames are (hopefully) starting to become competitive, Nyquist will be UFA age and probably have a value similar to Hudler.

Poirier will be 22ish and just entering into his best years.

Let's see how he and the 2nd round pick turn out before we go all hindsight-mental here

Please apply for Vancouver GM job. Thanks.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

We didn't have to trade Bouwmeester that deadline.

More teams would've been able to fit him in during the summer.

Hind sight is 20/20 and it's so easy to look back and say we would have gotten a better deal. Even if more teams had more cap space doesn't necessarily mean Feaster could have gotten a better deal. To me he was in a no win situation and no matter what he did some here would still complain that he didn't get enough.

[puckluck2]

We also flipped Reto Berra for a second. So Bouwmeester for a first and a second and Cundari. Now too bad. Not sure why people are so upset and ####ting on Feaster when a lot of people liked the fact we got a first round pick in that draft. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Karl Racki]

Originally Posted by theoforever

Not yet

In fairness, Burke got nothing for his prize UFA (so far), so no matter how bad Feaster ###### it up, he did better than that.

[puckluck2]

Originally Posted by Dion

Hind sight is 20/20 and it's so easy to look back and say we would have gotten a better deal. Even if more teams had more cap space doesn't necessarily mean Feaster could have gotten a better deal. To me he was in a no win situation and no matter what he did some here would still complain that he didn't get enough.

Of course hindsight is 20/20.

This is what FlamesDraftWatcher posted in the Bouwmeester trade thread.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

St. Louis's 1st rounder may get us a better prospect than any in Detroit's system. Not to mention the 1st allows more possibilities for trading up/down or away.

[DrJ]

From my Orange Julius stand source, I was told it was a 2nd, Tatar and Kindl.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Dion

Agreed. Not getting a 1st round pick would have had this place in an uproar. Hind sight is 20/20 and it's always easy to look back and say we could have gotten a better deal from someone else.

This reminds me of the gm's in my fantasy league who are too lazy to research outside of the top five picks in the first round. They havent heard of anybody until they bust out and are talked about on tsn.

Id like to think most people on CP arent like that, but then i read posts like this and shake my head.

I would have done jumping jacks for nyquist alone, let alone nyquist AND tatar. First shmirst.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Karl Racki

In fairness, Burke got nothing for his prize UFA (so far), so no matter how bad Feaster ###### it up, he did better than that.

nobody wanted Cammy! not sure why nobody gets this

you cant compare Iggy and Non UFA Jaybo to UFA Cammy who had been playing TERRIBLE

we would have been lucky to get a 3rd for Cammy, any idiot could have got a first for the other two


Not to mention Feaster tried to trade Cammy in the summer himself, how did that work out?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Exactly. People on this very board wanted Bouw bought out the year before. Meaning they wanted to get rid of him for NOTHING. Hindsight indeed.

What does that have to do with anything? Fact is Bouwmeester had a strong year and drastically increased his trade value. His value at the time of the trade is all that is relevant. We should be satisfied with less than market value because a year before it was less? That makes no sense. If Feaster passed on this deal he dropped ball huge. That's all there is to it. The value of Tatar and Nyquist last year was far superior to what we got from St Louis. It's over now so oh well but the justifications people come up with are terrible.

[dino7c]

its funny that more people defend Feaster now than ever did when he was actually the GM, I think some just like dumping on the current management no matter who it is

[Dion]

Originally Posted by puckluck2

Of course hindsight is 20/20.

This is what FlamesDraftWatcher posted in the Bouwmeester trade thread.

What is the point in revisiting a trade that was made?

[Brad Marsh]

The other "hindsight" complicating this is how Bouwmeester has played since the trade. For most of his contract in Calgary, Bouwmeester was a huge target on CP as a potential buy-out candidate.

Feaster said all along that the first rounder was a must in any deal. He would have been highly criticized at the time had a first round pick not been part of the package.

I'm not sure how many "better" deals could have been available. Even the one rumoured here from Detroint, at the time the deal was made, isn't substantively better than what Feaster got.

Agree with all the comments made about the criticisms Feaster would have been subject to had he traded this key piece for more small left-wingers.

I also have a hard time with the "wait for something better" thinking as well because trade deadline day has consistently (except for perhaps this year) brought the best returns.

I think in the full context of where the team was, where the player was, the premium being placed on 2013 first-rounders, etc., etc., that Feaster did okay on this one. I'm not saying this was a slam-dunk win for the Flames at all, just that the return seemed pretty reasonable at the time, and I'm actually not all that concerned about it now, to be honest.