[Trade] Calgary trades Greg Nemisz to Carolina for Kevin Westgarth

[moon]

Originally Posted by Cali Flames Fan

Secondly, if you think McGrattan doesn't inspire fear in anyone who isn't an enforcer, you need to go talk to Andrew Alberts. I bet he feels differently.

I don't agree with the original premise of ricardow but I am not sure that we should use an illegal hit that caused a concussion as reason to fear McGrattan. I personally hope a hit like that doesn't happen again and that nobody in the league has to fear that happening to them.

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I understand I'm piling on here but I have to call you out on saying Grats doesn't inspire fear. He plays with controlled aggression and is fearless. Haven't you seen his death stare? I'm fairly certain not a single player in the league thinks oh yay Grats is out there when he jumps over the boards for his shift.

I would think most top 6 and even the lower level guys would be happy because it gives them a much better chance to score than if a competent player was out there.

Plus he is so slow the chances of him actually hitting you are fairly low.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Not to defend ricardodw but IMO the most useless thing in the NHL is a goon that only fights other goons... which is what McGrattan is.

Or lays out big hits, or leads in the dressing room/ice, is responsible in his own end, doesn't take stupid penalties. I get some of you don't like fighting in the game, fine, then complain about guys like McIntyre or Gazdic. Don't complain about Grats because while he may not score more than one or two goals per year, he brings other valuable intangibles to the team.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by Goodlad

Yeah, you really see it in the after the whistle scrums around the net. Lots of pushing and shoving, then Grats skates in, tugs on the back of someone's jersey and just stares at him. Things usually calm down pretty fast from there.

How many times has Cammy, Sven, Hudler, Brodie, Monahan, Russell, or any if our goaltenders been run or cheap shotted this year? Yeah I'd say things remain relatively calm which is the idea.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

Nemisz was not utilized properly in Abbotsford. We basically wasted a 23 year old big forward with some decent upside who was not provided a decent chance to prove himself. Do we really need another tough guy on the farm? We definitely don't want this guy wasting a spot in the Flames line up as we already have too many 30 year olds scoring 1 assist every 10 games and taking up 16 minutes of ice time. This move did nothing for the Flames but may help Carolina.

I remember watching Nemisz at the World Juniors. You could tell he had a high bust potential, maybe the worse Canadian forward at the tournament. The best you could have hope was for him to develop into a 3rd or 4th line checker, but he's wasn't even talented enough to do that.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

is responsible in his own end

What? McGrattan isn't responsible in our own end... the Flames are routinely out-shot when he's on the ice which is amazing considering that he generally starts his shifts so far from his own end.

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I get some of you don't like fighting in the game, fine

I'm fine watching hockey players fight... I just don't like watching fighters try to play hockey. I'm not anti-fighting, I'm anti-dressing an inferior player for the sole purpose of fighting. I'm anti-goon.

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Don't complain about Grats because while he may not score more than one or two goals per year, he brings other valuable intangibles to the team.

... and I'm pretty sure that you can find valuable intangibles in someone who's a significantly better hockey player then McGrattan. I think Westgarth is actually a slightly better hockey player then McGrattan so I'd be fine with this trade if the purpose were to replace McGrattan... unfortunately I think it's going to end up being supplimental with the net effect of making the team worse.

[Tinordi]

CP's lunatic core err fringe is out in full force in this thread.

Can someone kindly explain to me what all the moaning about this deal is about in simple point format? It just looks like moaning for the sake of it.

Burke GM blah blah blah
Goon toughness blah blah blah
Nemisz blah blah blah

None of it makes sense.

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by Fire

I remember watching Nemisz at the World Juniors. You could tell he had a high bust potential, maybe the worse Canadian forward at the tournament. The best you could have hope was for him to develop into a 3rd or 4th line checker, but he's wasn't even talented enough to do that.

I watched Nemisz for his career in Windsor, you are way off base. He is a lot better than what you may have seen at one tournament with a ridiculously talented team. He also had a bad injury right at the end of his time in Windsor with subsequent infection that he took a long time to come back from. I wish him all the best.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Not to defend ricardodw but IMO the most useless thing in the NHL is a goon that only fights other goons... which is what McGrattan is.

Westgarth fought Engelland (14 Minutes a game) .. Shawn Thorton 8-9 minutes Cowan - 20 minutes /game,

McGrattan's fight card has Bolling (10 minutes) as the only guy that plays more than 5-6 minutes/game Ie pure goons.... members of the club of honorable fighters.

Westgarth is a goon that somehow gets to fight players.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Parallex

What? McGrattan isn't responsible in our own end... the Flames are routinely out-shot when he's on the ice which is amazing considering that he generally starts his shifts so far from his own end.



I'm fine watching hockey players fight... I just don't like watching fighters try to play hockey. I'm not anti-fighting, I'm anti-dressing an inferior player for the sole purpose of fighting. I'm anti-goon.



... and I'm pretty sure that you can find valuable intangibles in someone who's a significantly better hockey player then McGrattan. I think Westgarth is actually a slightly better hockey player then McGrattan so I'd be fine with this trade if the purpose were to replace McGrattan... unfortunately I think it's going to end up being supplimental with the net effect of making the team worse.

It could be covering for McGrattan sitting some games... If McGrattan is suspended /hurt leaves the Flames with SOB as the go-to goon.

It's not like Hartley makes any attempt to roll 4 lines. If you are on the 4th line or 6th d-man chances are no matter what your skill level you will be lucky to see six minutes of ice-time. When Backlund dropped to the 4th line he got 8-10 minutes when he was playing around 20.

[bigbadboss101]

Having both of them on the same line could mean oppositions having puck possession in our zone for majority of the time though. I the old days teams have multiple fighters but in today's hockey teams have a few players who can duke and play. I am hoping Burke will bring in some of those players although I don't know if we have to assets to do so. I would love a Simmonds, Engeland. Even Bollig has some skills.

If we can get O'Brien, Bouma to step up that would be good. They can be meaner.

[Vinny01]

This trade is meaningless in the short and long term in my opinion. I am excited for the moves Burke is going to make in the next 2 months. I think he is going to be very active and I am ready to be on the winning end of some trades.

[darthma]

boy people sure like to use the word truculence. I thought it was bad before Burke joined the Flames, then thought it was worse when he joined the Flames... and now that he's (interim) GM? Yuck.

[Flame On]

I don't mind the deal itself at all. As to the point of it, I don't mind that either, as I like the idea of being tougher and more punishing.
However I don't think the GM and coach are on the same page as this. The Flames never goon it up or get "truculent" even when far behind or when its worthy from being pushed around and its not like the team has no weapons in this regard.

[Mister Yamoto]

Originally Posted by darthma

boy people sure like to use the word truculence. I thought it was bad before Burke joined the Flames, then thought it was worse when he joined the Flames... and now that he's (interim) GM? Yuck.

Ya, truculence is way over used. I'll take truculence over intellectual honesty 100 times out of 100 though.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by darthma

boy people sure like to use the word truculence. I thought it was bad before Burke joined the Flames, then thought it was worse when he joined the Flames... and now that he's (interim) GM? Yuck.

Truculence is an awesome word. The definition is even better:

" feeling or displaying ferocity "

Actually, you're right. Screw a hockey team playing with truculence. What a stupid word. We don't need that kind of nonsense here.

[kehatch]

I would rather hear about "Truculence" then "Intellectual Honesty" or any of Feaster's stupid ass made up sayings.

[sergei_makarov]

When asked if this was the start of deals to come, Burke said: “We’re open for business.”

Wasn't there a large contingent here that crucified Feaster for saying the same thing?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by sergei_makarov

When asked if this was the start of deals to come, Burke said: “We’re open for business.”



Wasn't there a large contingent here that crucified Feaster for saying the same thing?

I believe Feaster was crucified for saying that.... and then doing absolutely nothing.

[Burner]

Originally Posted by strombad

I believe Feaster was crucified for saying that.... and then doing absolutely nothing.

at least its not a BOLD move

[killer_carlson]

Does this remind anyone else of the Ramholt/Greentree/Gratton trade?

the "experts" were all abuzz with the trade seeing a big forward prospect, a puck moving reliable defence prospect, and a pure goon. Philly got "fleeced" by picking up the goon. In the end, they got 20 games out of Gratton and moved a player who had cracked their lineup for a grand total of 2 games previously.

In the end, none of them played 100 games in the NHL, with the "goon" playing 86, to Greentree's 4 and Ramholt's 1.

There are times where you measure the impact of a bottom of the roster trade by how many NHL games did you get in the end. Nemisz was going to get us zero. Westgarth may get us 40, playing 5 minutes a game, resulting in double shifts for our skill players to (hopefully) develop. It's asset management at the micro end of the spectrum.