[News] Feaster and Weisbrod relieved of duties. Burke will hire a new GM

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

It doesn't have to be.

However right now players like Cammellerri, Byron, Hudler, Stajan, Baertschi, Stempniak, Gaudreau (Prospect), Russel are all examples of players on this team that are small in stature but who have very good hockey IQ, character and speed.

We don't have many players aside from Sean Monohan who appear to have both sets of attributes.

But yes I agree with you, we should be looking for players with both sets of ideals.

So did Phil Kessel, Andy MacDonald, Sedin twins, Naslund, Morrison, etc etc etc....

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This is why I was ready to wait and see what they could build this team into, because eventually they'd get their hands on players with these attributes as well size and toughness.



This is why I'm worried we're going to end up with a team full of big tough dummies, and a prospect cupboard full of the same.

There is alot of talk I see on the board about Jay Feaster not having a plan....but I think he did, I think him and John Weisbrod did have a long term plan for this team and had started it 2 years ago give or take a bit.

I think they wanted a team full of very smart, skilled and fast hockey players with personalities and back stories that people wanted to root for. A team that people would feel really good about. I know it does sound like pie in the sky stuff and people have a tendancy to sh*t on people with that philosophy.

Its unfortunate that this plan completely stopped as of Friday. However Brian Burke does have a history at building winning hockey teams himself.

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

So did Phil Kessel, Andy MacDonald, Sedin twins, Naslund, Morrison, etc etc etc....

Indeed. It will be interesting to see how it all pans out.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

Today I heard the following tidbits from someone much more credible and close to the Flames Organization than the Orange Julius guy but talk is talk so this is what this is......talk.

-Brian Burke performed a full thorough and exhaustive examination of the Flames Organization and was thoroughly appalled with the teams drafting record, scouting staff, what the organization looks for in evaluating players as well as the development of those players.

-John Weisbrod's player evaluating philosophies are not well respected around the league and he has a much different philosophy than most every other scouting executive as far as evaluating talent.

-Things were never as they seemed when Brian Burke was highered, Brian Burke reported to one man and one man only, Murray Edwards and when Burke was highered Feasters days were essentially numbered.

-Brian Burke does not like small players and despite what he says about wanting to keep Johnny Gaudreau around.....he doesnt. He does not believe that small players can exist in this league and that Martin St. Louis and guys like him are extremely rare and not worth taking a risk on.

-Jay Feaster and John Weisbrod believes in character, Hockey IQ, speed, skill. Brian Burke believes in size, truculence, black and blue hockey.

-Jay Feaster and John Weisbrod were in Abbostford watching the Heat when they were called back to Calgary to be fired.

Well then, I hope he finds a GM that will give the small guys a shot because if Johnny makes it happen at the NHL level he's going to be St. Louis good.

And we seriously don't need another Marty slipping through our fingers like that. I don't care how impatient Burke is, you've got to give the kid a proper shot to fill out and develop. There are other bigger prospects, and he'll have a chance to draft a big kid this year too. Don't need to go out dealing the top college forward in the entire US just cause his type is extremely hit or miss.

Burke would be moronic to do such a thing.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

However Brian Burke does have a history at building winning hockey teams himself.

Well, that's all I want.

I want to cheer for a winner, and I want that winner to be the Calgary Flames.

In the end I don't care if they trade away 20 Gaudreau's and 20 Baertcshi's as long as the return combined with what's left results in this team being a true blue winning team.

Hopefully Burke, and whoever he hires can get the job done.

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Well then, I hope he finds a GM that will give the small guys a shot because if Johnny makes it happen at the NHL level he's going to be St. Louis good.

And we seriously don't need another Marty slipping through our fingers like that. I don't care how impatient Burke is, you've got to give the kid a proper shot to fill out and develop. There are other bigger prospects, and he'll have a chance to draft a big kid this year too. Don't need to go out dealing the top college forward in the entire US just cause his type is extremely hit or miss.

Burke would be moronic to do such a thing.

I agree with your thoughts on that 100 percent. I was very young when Calgary traded away Martin St. Louis but I do recall him being plugged on the third and fourth line, tried to turn him into a mini checker and he was never given much of a chance.

And to top it all off he was instrumental in the door to door canvassing in the save the flames drive if what I heard is true.

After this happened he was immediately disbanded and I dont recall if he was traded to Tampa Bay or he was put on waivers and then claimed by Tampa Bay. Either way yah that sucked and it would be a big slap in the face to have something like that happen again.

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Well, that's all I want.

I want to cheer for a winner, and I want that winner to be the Calgary Flames.

In the end I don't care if they trade away 20 Gaudreau's and 20 Baertcshi's as long as the return combined with what's left results in this team being a true blue winning team.

Hopefully Burke, and whoever he hires can get the job done.

Winning is the bottom line period.

[saillias]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

If in a couple years we have a team full of big tough dummies that hit everything that wears a different coloured jersey and moves, but can't play a smart, skilled, puck possession game I will be more disappointed than ever in this organization.

I think this worry is a bit irrational. Can you look at any of Burke's teams he put together and say this about them?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

There is alot of talk I see on the board about Jay Feaster not having a plan....but I think he did, I think him and John Weisbrod did have a long term plan for this team and had started it 2 years ago give or take a bit.

I think they wanted a team full of very smart, skilled and fast hockey players with personalities and back stories that people wanted to root for. A team that people would feel really good about. I know it does sound like pie in the sky stuff and people have a tendancy to sh*t on people with that philosophy.

Its unfortunate that this plan completely stopped as of Friday. However Brian Burke does have a history at building winning hockey teams himself.

I'm not sure I understand this? Did he go out of his way to particularly look for a backstory to a player, that other GM's don't?

As for the plan ... I think it changed every year. At first it was about puck moving defenseman and transition game. Then it was all about Iginla, finding Iginla a No 1 C, making deals to clear cap room to go hail mary on Brad Ricahrds for Iginla, or offer sheeting ROR to center Iginla...... then it was rebuild.

Drafting, well hockey sense (when did we stop calling it that, and started with this hockey IQ stuff?) was something that started before Feaster. Before Feaster there was Max Reinhart, Patrick Holland, Tim Erixon, Mitch Wahl (ok so they don't all turn out), TJ Brodie, Backlund, John Negrin...... or character, see Mickey Renaud.

[Fire]

I'm willing to wager that Gaudreau's first NHL game will be with the Flames uniform on.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by saillias

I think this worry is a bit irrational. Can you look at any of Burke's teams he put together and say this about them?

Basically it's what he did with the Leafs that scares me.

Been several years, and that's still not a very good team, and definitely not a skilled, puck possession team.

[lifetimefan]

Originally Posted by Fire

I'm willing to wager that Gaudreau's first NHL game will be with the Flames uniform on.

Preseason doesn't count.
I have a sinking feeling that, even if what you say is true, there won't be many of them.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Basically it's what he did with the Leafs that scares me.

Been several years, and that's still not a very good team, and definitely not a skilled, puck possession team.

Well good thing he's not going to be GM then!

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Me too - I find that kind of scary on both sides. After almost 6 months of "evaluating" the staff Burke doesn't know the the 2nd in command after Feaster??? Conversely, where was Weisbrod during the 6 months, and why does nobody know him?

Uh, Burke was hired September 5. 6 months of evaluation would have placed this firing sometime in March. On my calendar it is December. So...

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I'm not sure I understand this? Did he go out of his way to particularly look for a backstory to a player, that other GM's don't?

As for the plan ... I think it changed every year. At first it was about puck moving defenseman and transition game. Then it was all about Iginla, finding Iginla a No 1 C, making deals to clear cap room to go hail mary on Brad Ricahrds for Iginla, or offer sheeting ROR to center Iginla...... then it was rebuild.

Drafting, well hockey sense (when did we stop calling it that, and started with this hockey IQ stuff?) was something that started before Feaster. Before Feaster there was Max Reinhart, Patrick Holland, Tim Erixon, Mitch Wahl (ok so they don't all turn out), TJ Brodie, Backlund, John Negrin...... or character, see Mickey Renaud.

No he did not go out intentionally to look for a backstory of a player.....that comment came out of my mouth and was my opinion on it (Jankowski picked out of high school, Gaudreau tiny player with big time skill, Kanzig huge player from a small town that no one else seemed to rank high). That gives me that perception, whether my perception is correct or incorrect is completely arbitrary and who knows maybe its 100 percent wrong on my part.

I dont think the plan changed alot year to year, I think circumstances did however, we wanted a first line center when Iginla was still here and that is what motivated the attempted Brad Richards signing. The ROR offersheet is still puzzling to me, I should ask more about that when I get the chance. But yes ROR was a huge hail mary and nearly cost us dearly.

Its so easy for one to contradict themselves because there are so many contradctory things going on. That is usually due to lack of solidified direction and leadership.

I like the list you came up with for players drafted for hockey IQ before the Feaster Regime. However I think a few of those players did have character flaws and or lack of speed issues and am not sure those would have been players that Feaster and Weisbrod would have drafted....but yeah they were all projected to have very strong hockey sense.

The more I write on this the more contradictory I feel, perhaps because this whole issue is contradictory and their are holes that can be picked everywhere.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

No he did not go out intentionally to look for a backstory of a player.....that comment came out of my mouth and was my opinion on it (Jankowski picked out of high school, Gaudreau tiny player with big time skill, Kanzig huge player from a small town that no one else seemed to rank high). That gives me that perception, whether my perception is correct or incorrect is completely arbitrary and who knows maybe its 100 percent wrong on my part.

I dont think the plan changed alot year to year, I think circumstances did however, we wanted a first line center when Iginla was still here and that is what motivated the attempted Brad Richards signing. The ROR offersheet is still puzzling to me, I should ask more about that when I get the chance. But yes ROR was a huge hail mary and nearly cost us dearly.

Its so easy for one to contradict themselves because there are so many contradctory things going on. That is usually due to lack of solidified direction and leadership.

I like the list you came up with for players drafted for hockey IQ before the Feaster Regime. However I think a few of those players did have character flaws and or lack of speed issues and am not sure those would have been players that Feaster and Weisbrod would have drafted....but yeah they were all projected to have very strong hockey sense.

The more I write on this the more contradictory I feel, perhaps because this whole issue is contradictory and their are holes that can be picked everywhere.

Maybe because outside of a top 10 draft pick, no player is going to be perfect?

[Hockeyboy2]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Maybe because outside of a top 10 draft pick, no player is going to be perfect?

Yes this is very true.....I was a top 10 draft pick once....seriously NCHL Canmore Draft Tournament. I was one of the top 10 players drafted!.....And your right I have serious holes in my game.

Isnt it scary though that as fans we take shots at these special athletes who do something for a living that we couldnt even comprehend doing 1/10th or less as good....and those are just the guys who are fringe players. Got to admit I would feel pretty humbled if Chris Butler played a game for us....the score would be 10-2 and he would get all 10 goals.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

I would suspect there is a realistic chance of this. Not a slam dunk chance, but a realistic one.

I hope that doesn't come true

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

Yes this is very true.....I was a top 10 draft pick once....seriously NCHL Canmore Draft Tournament. I was one of the top 10 players drafted!.....And your right I have serious holes in my game.

Isnt it scary though that as fans we take shots at these special athletes who do something for a living that we couldnt even comprehend doing 1/10th or less as good....and those are just the guys who are fringe players. Got to admit I would feel pretty humbled if Chris Butler played a game for us....the score would be 10-2 and he would get all 10 goals.

He would probably be on the ice for those 2 goals against though

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I really don't want to believe this.

I don't want to be the team drafting the Gaunces, Biggs', Nemiszs, and Gauthiers of the world. They are boring picks with limited upside.

More than half of our top prospects... Baertschi, Gaudreau, Klimchuk, Agostino, are all shorter than 5'11".

Sigh.

Since when did Gauthier become some big, dumb dope? If he was a Flames prospect he would be lauded for how great he was in the U-18, his size and being picked for Team Canada. He looks like a guy that is going to be a solid NHLer with top 6 upside.

Originally Posted by Hockeyboy2

Would I be off the wall for suggesting that Brian Burke's drafting criteria could be comparable to Darryl Sutter's? Is that out of line? If its not out of line then yes we will be drafting the Gaunces, Biggs, Nemiszs, Gauthiers of the world very soon.

Yes you would be off the wall and considering that Gaunce, Gauthier and Biggs are still developing nothing to indicate those are bad picks and the numerous Feaster picks that aren't playing in the NHL are great picks.

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This is why I'm worried we're going to end up with a team full of big tough dummies, and a prospect cupboard full of the same.

Burke has never built a team like that before so why would that be a concern now?

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Basically it's what he did with the Leafs that scares me.

Been several years, and that's still not a very good team, and definitely not a skilled, puck possession team.

The TB team that Feaster built after the Cup was not very good and certainly not a skilled, puck possession team. The team he has built now is definitely not a skilled, puck possession team.

The closest team/s to your wish would be the Burke Canucks and Ducks so odd you want Feaster to stay but are worried about Burke when he has shown a much better ability at being able to create those teams you desire.