Sean FRICKIN Monahan - Page 38 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

CliffFletcher · 10-22-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

If that were true and it was such an exact science, every scout would have the same rankings for all players. Also, having quality teammates will always help showcase a player.... and vice versa.

I'm pretty sure MacKinnon was at the top of the list for almost every team in the league. But hey, if you want to believe scouts just look at the stats sheet and team success when assessing a player, go ahead.

renny · 10-22-2013, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I would take Poirier, Klimchuk and Monahan. It looks like we might have hit 3 home runs.

Talent with depth wins championships. Talent alone makes you Edmonton.

I'll add to this, Talent without character makes you Edmonton. Look at Yakupov, the dude may have all-world skill, but has zero character. Contrast that with Baertschi, both were called out, one decided to pout the other decided he was going to work on improving the aspects of his game management didn't like.

PsYcNeT · 10-22-2013, 12:50 PM

I take so much joy from the Oiler fans on HF...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Some Oiler Fan

My frustration with the Oilers' rebuild turned into rage after I saw the hockey IQ, physical readiness, and overall compete level from this kid. Literally threw my arms up in the air and yelled.

Flames could take any of Hall, Eberle, Yakupov if they'd like - as much skill/potential as they bring it will never have the overall game impact of a complete 2-way game like the one Monahan possesses.

Rerun · 10-22-2013, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I take so much joy from the Oiler fans on HF...

Hmmm... I'm going to have to start reading HF

Sounds like the posters there really know their stuff.

PsYcNeT · 10-22-2013, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

Hmmm... I'm going to have to start reading HF

Sounds like the posters there really know their stuff.

Take solace knowing that he was torn apart by other Oiler fans shortly after, so even if some of them aren't hockey-stupid, most still are.

Fire · 10-22-2013, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rerun

I think a case for Monahan’s equality to MacKinnon can be made and his play these past few weeks for the Flames certainly strengthens it. Not saying he’s better, but a case can be made that he’s just as good. Of course then I may be biased as I’ve seen a lot more of Money’s play than I have of Mackinnon.

Anyways….

Monahan WAS drafted in 6th place, but was that because he was the 6th best player in the draft or because he had the misfortune to play for the sad sack Ottawa 67s who had a win % of 27.9?

Mackinnon was drafted #1. Was that because he was the best player in the draft or because he had the advantage of playing on the Memorial Cup champion Halifax Mooseheads which has a win % of 88.2?

Monahan scored 31 goals and the whole team only scored 208 goals. That means he scored approx. 15% of the teams goals.

MacKinnon scored 32 goals BUT the whole team scored 347 goals. That’s 9% of the team’s goals.

Its pretty obvious that MacKinnon had way more help getting where he is than Monahan had. Monahan virtually had to carry his team on his back.

The NHL scouts do this for a living. They actually watch the kids play. I doubt MacKinnon was ranked higher up because he got more points. Some fans could be blame for just looking at the points but I would to think the NHL amateur scouts are bit better at judging talent.

Buff · 10-22-2013, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Q_

Well yes it matters because if we want to win the Stanley Cup one day, we want to have the best collection of players in the NHL. If Colorado's #1 centre is better than ours, chances are, they're more likely to win the Cup than us.

It is all about how the team is built, not having the one individual player who is the best. Did Wayne Gretzky win the Stanley Cup every year he played? He only won 4. Messier won 6 so is he a better player than Gretzky? Ron Francis won more cups than Lemieux. Was he a better player? Those guys won multiple cups not by being the best player on their team but they were the best player and very key contributors on very good teams.

If you base the chances of winning the cup for Colorado vs Calgary on who they have at center, then yes Colorado has a better chance right now. They have MacKinnon, Duchesne, Stastny and O'Reilly. Calgary has Monahan and nobody else deserving to be mentioned in that class. Going forward you can't base it on either MacKinnon or Monahan because you don't know who will be the more dominant player and you don't know how well built their teams will be going forward.

GreenLantern · 10-22-2013, 01:54 PM

Shouldn't be any debate on that, I would much rather have a well rounded team than the two best players in the league. That simple. Yes you will always be competitive either way, but I feel the more rounded team has the higher chance of success, case in point Chicago and their two recent cups, Boston, LA, etc..

Spread the talent, spread the wealth, don't weigh yourself down with monstrous contracts. This seems to be the way the Flames are headed with their young depth and I love it.

codynw · 10-22-2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stemit14

Sidney Crosby is the best centreman in the world and I think everyone would agree he is better than Jonathan Toews. They both have lead their teams to Stanley Cups and they're styles are about as different as mackinnon's is from Monahan. If the avalanche end up with the next Sidney Crosby and the flames end up with the next Jonathan toews, I'll be more than happy for my flames. I know that neither of these rookies are likely to hit that high of a ceiling but those are the players that scouts compared each of them to at the draft.

No. He obviously has more offensive skill than Toews but Toews is the complete package. He's a Selke winner that also scores at near 1 point per game. And even if you think Crosby is better than Toews, there is no way in hell you can think he is better than Datsyuk, so there's that.

DOOM · 10-22-2013, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

No. He obviously has more offensive skill than Toews but Toews is the complete package. He's a Selke winner that also scores at near 1 point per game. And even if you think Crosby is better than Toews, there is no way in hell you can think he is better than Datsyuk, so there's that.

Crosby is easily better then Toews and Datsyuk.

Street Pharmacist · 10-22-2013, 02:16 PM

Datsyuk is awesome, but overrated too

codynw · 10-22-2013, 02:18 PM

Yea, the best two way forward in the NHL is overrated. You're totally right.

Eric · 10-22-2013, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

No. He obviously has more offensive skill than Toews but Toews is the complete package. He's a Selke winner that also scores at near 1 point per game. And even if you think Crosby is better than Toews, there is no way in hell you can think he is better than Datsyuk, so there's that.

Lol

TheDebaser · 10-22-2013, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

Yea, the best two way forward in the NHL is overrated. You're totally right.

No one thinks he isn't an incredible player, they just don't think he's hockey jesus like you seem to think.

Street Pharmacist · 10-22-2013, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

Yea, the best two way forward in the NHL is overrated. You're totally right.

He's constantly said to be the best player in the NHL. Crosby is better by a fair bit IMO.

Coach · 10-22-2013, 02:31 PM

If you don't think Crosby isn't a complete hockey player I don't even know what to say. Toews and Datsyuk are both great and have their assets for sure, but they are not better all-around players than Crosby. They are better than pretty much everyone else though.

MissTeeks · 10-22-2013, 02:33 PM

What the hell does any of this have to do with Sean Frickin Monahan?

ToraToraTora · 10-22-2013, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissTeeks

What the hell does any of this have to do with Sean Frickin Monahan?

Time to refocus. I will reignite the topic:

Monahan is awesome. Discuss.

Itse · 10-22-2013, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stemit14

If the avalanche end up with the next Sidney Crosby and the flames end up with the next Jonathan toews, I'll be more than happy for my flames.

Very much this.

Also, sometimes you've just got to remember to appreciate what you have. Monahan is a great player to build a future with and a great player to watch. Just enjoy it.

stemit14 · 10-22-2013, 02:38 PM

You guys are missing the point... Crosby and toews are just different styles of centremen but they both bring success to their teams. If Colorado's mackinnon ends up like Crosby and Monahan ends up like toews I think both franchises will be happy.

Even though I think most people would agree Crosby is the best player in the game right now, I don't think the Blackhawks would trade toews for any player in the world - even Crosby - cause he means that much to the Blackhawks. All of us flames fans would be over the moon if Monahan becomes that player for the flames.