[OOT] Melee between Toronto and Buffalo

[Deegee]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Guys like John Scott are an embarrassment to the league. I like seeing fights, but when a guy is not capable of playing hockey at the NHL level, he shouldn't be wearing the uniform.

So how do you feel about your team signing MacIntyre?

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by valo403

He's not Goliath, Scott was still going after Kessel when other players engaged him, if they don't step in you seriously think Scott was just going to give him a noogie?

Nm...Coffee hasn't kicked in yet.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Deegee

So how do you feel about your team signing MacIntyre?

It's a doubly funny comment since the Oilers have had numerous players over the last few years that could be argued as "not capable of playing NHL hockey".

[strombad]

Originally Posted by valo403

You actually believe that little move by Kessel provoked a reaction from Scott don't you? You should probably look into what's in that powder, it's making you crazy.

Well, he did undeniably provoke Scott with the second slash and stomach jab...

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

He could have popped him right away with a shot or two before anyone got in there. It's not like he was set on pummeling him and a couple of Leafs came to save the day. I don't think Scott ever intended to destroy Kessel at all, just put some fear into him and the rest of the Leafs.

This is exactly how I saw it, if you watch the video he quickly turns his focus on a different player when he realizes Kessel doesn't want to drop the gloves. I thought he had lots of time to grab Kessel if he wanted to.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

This is exactly how I saw it, if you watch the video he quickly turns his focus on a different player when he realizes Kessel doesn't want to drop the gloves. I thought he had lots of time to grab Kessel if he wanted to.

1) Scott doesn't change focus until #25 grabs him. It had nothing to do with him "quickly changing focus" and everything to do with somebody becoming an achor and interfering with his intended goal. Once the dim light clues in and he is throwing his first punch straight into 25's face before 37 can get in to try to subdue the thug.

Had 25 (Brennan) not intervened, those punches were all for Kessel.

2) Scott didn't have enough time to grab Kessel and he obviously wanted to because he kept reaching for Kessel and not getting a grip on him. It had nothing to do with some notion that Scott is a nice guy and didn't really mean to go after Kessel, Kessel's speed and agility were too good for Scott to control and pummel.

You guys are giving Scott waaaaaay too much credit.

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Watch it in slow-mo...Scott has both hands on his stick and is looking at the face-off dot until Kessel's glove touches him...he has pretty lightning quick glove removal skills though.


We'll never know what Scott was going to do if left unprovoked...I'm guessing a nasty gloves on punch or cross-check, but he didn't appear poised to chuck his gloves and start pummelling.

Everyone knows what Scott was going to do. That's why the Sabres' coach was fined. This isn't a mystery to befuddle people, judgement was passed already.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by strombad

Well, he did undeniably provoke Scott with the second slash and stomach jab...

And that's relevant to the conversation how?

[strombad]

Originally Posted by valo403

And that's relevant to the conversation how?

Because we're discussing the entire situation, not ignoring select parts that don't fit your flawed argument. It also speaks to Kessel's demeanour, as while some argue he couldn't possibly have wanted to provoke or instigate Scott, he very CLEARLY does so later in the altercation, thus making it impossible to say there's no way he was provoking him originally.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by strombad

Because we're discussing the entire situation, not ignoring select parts that don't fit your flawed argument. It also speaks to Kessel's demeanour, as while some argue he couldn't possibly have wanted to provoke or instigate Scott, he very CLEARLY does so later in the altercation, thus making it impossible to say there's no way he was provoking him originally.

No, actually I was discussing the claim that Kessel provoked Scott by putting his hand up at the start. YOU have decided that YOU are discussing something else, and also decided that YOU needed to jump on in with your irrelevant comments.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by valo403

No, actually I was discussing the claim that Kessel provoked Scott by putting his hand up at the start. YOU have decided that YOU are discussing something else, and also decided that YOU needed to jump on in with your irrelevant comments.

Kind of like how YOU decide what's irrelevant because YOU don't want to talk about it.

You're fun.

[$ven27]

People saying that if Scott wanted to just pummel him, he would've. Which is probably true, however Kessel would be an idiot to think 'Oh, he's just trying to send a message, he won't hit me' as a 6'8 giant is coming at him. Kessel should've Ted Lindsay'ed him and just crack him one.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by strombad

Because we're discussing the entire situation, not ignoring select parts that don't fit your flawed argument. It also speaks to Kessel's demeanour, as while some argue he couldn't possibly have wanted to provoke or instigate Scott, he very CLEARLY does so later in the altercation, thus making it impossible to say there's no way he was provoking him originally.

So because Kessel was provoking Scott after Scott tried to attack him, it concludes that Kessel had to have been provoking him originally? That isn't a logical argument as the situation changed the moment Scott dropped his gloves. The only way your conclusion would be true is if nothing else changed from the start to finish of the situation aside from Kessel's activity.

Also, Scott was put out there specifically to start that fight. It didn't matter if Kessel turned to him, said something or gently tapped him on the back. That fight was premeditated. That's why the coach was fined.

With that infomation, arguing "what started the fight" seems to be a moot point.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by strombad

Kind of like how YOU decide what's irrelevant because YOU don't want to talk about it.

You're fun.

I've made my position on the subsequent slashes quite clear. If you'd like to discuss that please feel free. If you'd like to discuss a topic I have brought up in a post, again please feel free. If you'd like to continue to spout off irrelevant nonsense because you are bored, or otherwise lacking in some mental capacity, feel free to send me a PM.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Wolven

So because Kessel was provoking Scott after Scott tried to attack him, it concludes that Kessel had to have been provoking him originally? That isn't a logical argument as the situation changed the moment Scott dropped his gloves. The only way your conclusion would be true is if nothing else changed from the start to finish of the situation aside from Kessel's activity.

Also, Scott was put out there specifically to start that fight. It didn't matter if Kessel turned to him, said something or gently tapped him on the back. That fight was premeditated. That's why the coach was fined.

With that infomation, arguing "what started the fight" seems to be a moot point.

You don't understand, because we don't have complete audio of what was said it is equally plausible that Kessel challenged Scott to a fight. This is the brilliant argument that the wise strombad has presented.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by valo403

You don't understand, because we don't have complete audio of what was said it is equally plausible that Kessel challenged Scott to a fight. This is the brilliant argument that the wise strombad has presented.

Right, which is why I said it is a moot point.

There was a fight. The Sabres sent out their goon line and the Leafs sent out their scoring line because they did not want to have a 3rd period blood bath. The Sabres didn't get the message and Scott continued on as planned.

As plausible as it is that Kessel said "hey, lets fight" he could have also said "hey, lets not fight - we aren't fighters over here". Either way it doesn't matter because the decision was made before Kessel even got on the ice. Hence the fine to the Sabres.

[doctajones428]

Originally Posted by valo403

So the point of punching a guy in the face as hard as you can is not to break his face? Hmm, that's a new one.

Is the point to fracture his skull, break his eye socket or break his nose? I don't think so

[valo403]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Is the point to fracture his skull, break his eye socket or break his nose? I don't think so

What is it then? Punch just hard enough to leave a mark? Have you ever been in a fight? Ever received any sort of fight training? You punch through your target. You may not have the intention of breaking anything in his face, but punching someone as hard as you can in the face can certainly have that result. You don't need to have been around the world long to know that. If the point isn't to inflict damage then why not square up and just have a dance off?