Flames 2013 Draft Discussion

[nik-]

Originally Posted by MikaelBacklund

Reading the past two pages of this discussion, it seems like most people are hoping for Monahan now. No more love for Lindholm?

It's weird, Lindholm won the poll, but since the Flames seemed to be leaning Monahan's way, Lindholm is just never talked about. Now people even want Nichushkin over him.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's weird, Lindholm won the poll, but since the Flames seemed to be leaning Monahan's way, Lindholm is just never talked about. Now people even want Nichushkin over him.

I don't. I just wouldn't be as upset as a lot of people on here would be if we took Nichushkin. Especially if it pays off in the long run. Isn't that the point of a draft? I would defiantly take Lindholm over him though.

[Redmonster]

I don't have anything against Lindholm. Just think he is a player that will take some time to develop. He will probably play next year in Sweden. After that he has to come to NA and adjust to the style of play here. As we all know, this process can take time. He could end up being a better player down the road than Monahan and Nikushkin, but who really knows.

Nikushkin by all accounts is ready to step in to the NHL immediately. He brings size and scoring. He plays a big mans game. He plays the RW. The Flames need all those attributes right now. Especially in their top 6.

Is Nikushkin a risk, yes. But who isn't exactly?

[T@T]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's weird, Lindholm won the poll, but since the Flames seemed to be leaning Monahan's way, Lindholm is just never talked about. Now people even want Nichushkin over him.

Not sure how Lindholm won the poll (Swedish jihad?) Monahan is bigger, a more natural center and was ranked third going into this season, because his team stripped away most of it's good players he lost his hype.

Mark my words, he'll be better than Lindholm and Barkov when all's said and done.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Redmonster

I don't have anything against Lindholm. Just think he is a player that will take some time to develop. He will probably play next year in Sweden. After that he has to come to NA and adjust to the style of play here. As we all know, this process can take time. He could end up being a better player down the road than Monahan and Nikushkin, but who really knows.

Nikushkin by all accounts is ready to step in to the NHL immediately. He brings size and scoring. He plays a big mans game. He plays the RW. The Flames need all those attributes right now. Especially in their top 6.

Is Nikushkin a risk, yes. But who isn't exactly?

The Flames have time, this isn't going to be over in two years. Drafting for who can step in immediately is short sighted and irrelevant.

[Redmonster]

Originally Posted by nik-

The Flames have time, this isn't going to be over in two years. Drafting for who can step in immediately is short sighted and irrelevant.

Maybe to some, thanks btw I haven't written off the next 2 yrs because frankly, I can't predict the future. I don't believe tanking is a forgone conclusion like some.
Its not just about immediate dividends either. I also believe Nikushkin has more potential to be the best player in this draft. Honestley Ill be happy with any one of Monahan, Lindholm or Nikushkin.

[djsFlames]

Some stuff from the Russia-Canada super series when Nichuskin was here..

"I was going to play in Canada but then I signed a contract with Traktor," explains the 17-year-old.

(And who wouldn't? being offered big money for a kid at his age. But sounds like had intentions to play here for his draft year)

"We know about our stats. It's only natural to follow how well you did on a stats sheet," the 6-foot-3 176-pound Nichushkin says. "However, individual statistics doesn't really matter. We're a team — lose or win. One for all and all for one."

"Here everything is faster. Pro players play smart, they don't run around too much. Besides, the rinks are smaller and that also speeds the game up. I like small rinks, though. I always play well on them. Hopefully, I'm going to score soon," says Nichushkin.

Just a couple interesting snippets there. His attitude doesn't sound so bad from reading up on some quotes and interviews. I like that he talks about playing for the team and not for stats, like many probably assume.

Also some interesting stat history: He set the record for his Western Siberia junior team in 10/11 scoring 87 goals and 40 assists for 127 points in 34 games.

Now on the flip side of things..

There was this quote in the rsport story about the player's relationship with Dynamo: "We agreed they would let me go," Nichushkin said, "but if something across the ocean goes wrong I'll come straight back."

So yeah, there's that.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Originally Posted by nik-

The Flames have time, this isn't going to be over in two years. Drafting for who can step in immediately is short sighted and irrelevant.

True. But wouldn't it make more sense to take the best player available rather than the guy you have a man crush on?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Also some interesting stat history: He set the record for his Western Siberia junior team in 10/11 scoring 87 goals and 40 assists for 127 points in 34 games.

Now on the flip side of things..

So yeah, there's that.

I wasn't a fan of Nikuschkin (sp?) until I saw that stat line. That is truly insane, and even if he brings 1/5th of that production next year I'd be happy. I think no matter who we pick at 6 it will be a very good player...just no Fatas!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Because Nichuskin is undeniably, and by all scouting sources, a top 5 elite talent, and a top 3 forward in this draft, and the largest reason for why he isn't projected higher is because of the Russian risk and that is widely known. Nashville or Carolina would be all but guaranteed to be picking him if this risk were eliminated because everything else is there. So if Calgary exhibited the image that they were comfortable enough to make him their consensus pick at #6, I think it's very possible that it would cause those teams to think that we had the inside track on his situation, or know something they don't. Like it was said, some interviews with him went well and some didn't, likely due in large part to the communication barrier. But for a team in this range to exhibit the attitude that they were confident that he were not a flight risk for them, I wouldn't be surprised that a team like Carolina, who might be looking at an inferior talent such as Monahan, might take some extra consideration with Nichuskin. And they are probably already giving him consideration to begin with. Who's to say the team below them showing full confidence in the player wouldn't score him some extra points in that regard? And you think each teams' lists are set in stone weeks prior? No way.

Like Feater has said about his draft in 2011, 1st round picks can be constantly moving targets, and who is preferred over who can change at a dime. It's never just set in stone, even in the minutes leading up to the decision, as he showed by choosing Sven over the unnamed (Murphy?) available pick that was supposedly higher ranked on their list. Fact is, human opinions can be altered by the slightest things, especially when the decision comes down to one person alone. When you break it down, picks are made on hunches, and those can be influenced. As well, look at the mind games colorado is playing on everybody in the top 5 right now.. Anyways, that's about as far as I can go on that. It's still a matter of opinion. If you don't agree then cool.

Ps. You and Sven should get a room.

I think Barkov makes far more sense for NSH regardless of the Russian factor. They need an elite #1 centre with size badly, just like us. The trouble they had with Radulov and Kostitsyn just makes it even more unlikely.

I think Carolina could possibly take Nichushkin.

What this type of rumour could actually do is encourage any team a few spots back who really wants Nichushkin to deal up to #5. Not sure that is at all realistic or not. Doubt EDM would be dealing up to take him, they'd take Monahan probably. BUF? Maybe they try to nab Nichushkin to go along with Grigorenko.

[drPepper1]

Any chance Buffalo would part with their first rounder?

[OILFAN #81]

Originally Posted by drPepper1

Any chance Buffalo would part with their first rounder?

Buffalo is looking to move up in the draft.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

True. But wouldn't it make more sense to take the best player available rather than the guy you have a man crush on?

I will admit that I've been on the Lindholm bandwagon for a while, but aside from that, I just don't see Nichushkin as "the man" like so many others seem to. He's got size, he's got decent wheels, he looks good pulling the same fly down the wing, cut to the middle move often in the KHL, and he did it in the WJC which apparently turned him into a god.

I don't see anything that just says this dude is on par with the top 3 if he wasn't in the KHL. His compete scares me, his going back to a league we don't have a transfer agreement with if he doesn't make it scares me and the fact that I'd prefer we take centers pushes him down.

Additionally, I see Lindholm as a potential Mike Richards with a little more finesse and playmaking ability, so really this is an extension of my Mike Richards man crush.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

If the Flames do take Nichushkin, I hope they have a solid plan for acclimatizing him to Calgary.

I hope they learned their lesson with Cervenka (granted he had a wife and newborn back home) and I don't want to hear Hartley or Feaster explaining away Nichushkin in a slump or being healthy scratched because he is homesick.

IIRC Malkin was able to adapt quickly because Gonchar took him in with the Pens.

I am not saying the Flames go find a Russian player to mentor Nichushkin, but a Russian ex-pat that lives in Calgary would be good also.

I volunteer ... for a mere 5% of his earnings. I can also see to his investments in sure-fire ventures.

[djsFlames]

I heard Buffalo also has "heavy" interest in Nichuskin (though probably more legitimate). Having in part to do with Grigorenko being a big piece in their system already.

Maybe Calgary is then pulling a Colorado for the 5-10 teams. Get someone to offer a deal too good for Carolina to refuse, they nab Nichuskin, we get one of the centers. And Buffalo has plenty of assets to deal.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

So yeah, there's that.

That quote makes it sound like he is more of a risk than he really is, however. In order to have his contract terminated without a financial penalty involved, he had to agree to return to them if he does not make an NHL team, rather than him going to the AHL. That is an actual stipulation on that agreement.

I think part of it was how the translation was worded, it ends up sounding like he is a flight risk. The guy is training in North America this off-season, and sounds pretty committed to the NHL. I guess people will always wonder how much of a flight risk he is, but I just see it as very few players (extremely rare) who make the NHL end up preferring to play in the KHL.

Ovie was 'threatening' to do that during the lockout, and I bet he re-signs in the NHL (unless he is just not a good player by then), Malkin is in the NHL, Datsyuk just re-signed (amid rumors of going back to the KHL). Almost all the Russian high-end players end up staying in the NHL. Kuznetsov by all accounts is planning on coming to the NHL, but is staying in the KHL trying to assure his spot on the Olympic team.

I just think that if he ends up being a really good player, he will get his money in the NHL and play in the NHL. If he ends up being a bust, then he will return to the KHL. If Monahan is a bust, he will end up playing in the AHL for years, and then end up getting a contract after some time in Europe as it will pay him more money as well (just like the Rico Fatas, Domenchelli's, etc.,) that can't make an NHL squad and lose hope.

I think the risk factor of him busting is minimal considering his skill level, size and skating ability. You never know, but the more you think about it, the less likely he is to 'bust' and the less likely he will ever play in the KHL again. Just my personal take on that situation, and I am sure others will completely disagree. The immediate flight risk of him not 'wanting' to play in the AHL is neither true or false - nobody really knows if he is 'willing' to or not, but his contract stipulates that he MUST return to the KHL if he doesn't make it. I bet he makes the Calgary squad, considering how poor Calgary is on the RW.

Had Calgary still had Iginla and Bourque, the likelihood of him being a 'flight risk' increases, but with Calgary being so weak on RW, and Nichushkin having that size and speed, it isn't a reach to think he could make the team even on the 3rd or 4th line to start the season, and not be 'in over his head'.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Had Calgary still had Iginla and Bourque, the likelihood of him being a 'flight risk' increases, but with Calgary being so weak on RW, and Nichushkin having that size and speed, it isn't a reach to think he could make the team even on the 3rd or 4th line to start the season, and not be 'in over his head'.

Nichushkin is not nor will ever be a checker.

He's in the dictionary under "one dimension", might not be a bad thing but he'll never be a defensive forward....ever!

[Miniac]

Flames need to take best player available & not the best center available.

[MikaelBacklund]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's weird, Lindholm won the poll, but since the Flames seemed to be leaning Monahan's way, Lindholm is just never talked about. Now people even want Nichushkin over him.

Oh well I see hah thanks.

Originally Posted by T@T

Not sure how Lindholm won the poll (Swedish jihad?) Monahan is bigger, a more natural center and was ranked third going into this season, because his team stripped away most of it's good players he lost his hype.

Mark my words, he'll be better than Lindholm and Barkov when all's said and done.

Personally, I was on Monahan train for a long time, but most recently I've been thinking that Lindholm will be the better player in the long run. True Monahan is taller, but only by a inch and a half as Elias is standing at 6'1/2''. He's by no means tall, but he's got a good enough height to not be held back to making the nhl. As Monahan is taller, he doesn't possess the physical game of Lindholm. BTW I have never watched Monahan or Lindholm live in my life, so I could for sure be wrong, but from the clips of both players I've seen just like many of us here, I feel like Monahan will for sure be in the NHL as he possesses great instincts of where to be on the ice, superb on face-offs, captain qualities and can make smart offensive and defensive plays, but in my mind projecting as a 2nd line center. Which is great, I'd love to see Monahan on the Flames. However, I feel like Lindholm will be better offensive player as he displays a lot of skill, ability to make plays in tight spaces, has great speed, can distribute the puck real well, loves to play a physical game, may not show as great defensive coverage as Monahan but he sure works hard to push players off the puck and he's right handed which the flames need. I guess Monahan is more of a pure center compared to Lindholm as he was rotating from center and right wing last season, but he was a true center before that. I see it as little risk of Elias not making the flames, as even if he doesn't workout at center, he can easily become a right wing for the flames as their best RW prospect is who? Nemisz? Aliu?

I'd love the flames to draft either; I'm just hoping its Lindholm of the two. Even though I have this gut feeling that the Flames won't hesitate to pick Monahan if he's available at 6th as I think he's their guy.

I'm no scout, so I wouldn't trust my own opinion lol but I thought I'd just share

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Miniac

Flames need to take best player available & not the best center available.

Crystal ball asks..who's the best player available?

If you need a defensman you take who you think is the best, if it's a center...so on.

That's how to build a team.