How much longer do you think the Oilers will be this bad for?

[CaptainCrunch]

Not to come to the Oilers or TSN's defense, but I thought it was Sports Illustrated. A publication that probably has more stories about Pro Wrestling and High School Basketball then they do about Hockey.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Walter Reed

That said, what can one do as a fan, hope for the better .....

Ditch the Oilers and cheer for a proper NHL organization?

[moon]

Yes the TSN thing has been pointed out many times that they had the Oilers at 13th or 14th in the West. I think Ward had them higher in his personal opinion and of course Ferraro had big things to say about them as well but TSN had them pegged fairly accurately, along with the Flames.

I think the SI article was written by Adrian Dater who is a moron at the best of times so no surprise that he got it so wrong but odd considering he should have been familiar with the Oilers as the Avs beat writer.

[Walter Reed]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Ditch the Oilers and cheer for a proper NHL organization?

Haha .... I will if you will .....
I no longer live in Edmonton or Alberta for that matter, but can never foresee the day that I'll now become a Canucks fan or a fan of any other NHL team. Growing up being a fan of one team rightly or wrongly, in good times and bad, it's a lifetime commitment I suppose.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

So if the top line has an off night or can't carry the mail it's basically a guarantee that the Oil lose.

If you look at other successful teams around the league they actually draft alot of their role players and then make strategic UFA signings or trades with those assets where they're weak.

Look at some of the best teams: Canucks, they have a crap load of drafted or developed guys on their lower lines providing valuable production.

LA traded alot of their drafted players for key depth pieces, they also basically drafted their entire D-core which is the one the best in the league. They did that with solid later round drafting.

Pittsburg gets alot of credit for their skill players in drafting but look at their depth guys. Kennedy, Talbot, Armstrong, Letang (drafted 3rd round), Goligoski, Despres. Those guys were/are key contributors or where dealt for other great assets.

You need a deluge of young guys coming in beyond your top end skill to build a roster.

Oilers have just been horribly bad at doing that. Kevin Lowe may know a thing or two about winning but he knows sweet FA about drafting.

Of the 8 guys that have played D for the Kings this season...3 of them are King draft choices.

But your point remains...drafting/acquiring the support guys can be as important as getting that home run pick. Many ways to accomplish that though.

[Steve Bozek]

Much as it pains me to say it, the Oilers are in a much better position to climb out of the toilet next season than the Flames. And I doubt their management (even allowing for their inherent stupidity) can completely screw this up.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Much as it pains me to say it, the Oilers are in a much better position to climb out of the toilet next season than the Flames. And I doubt their management (even allowing for their inherent stupidity) can completely screw this up.

sure they can, that's why we want Lowe to stay there forever!!!

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Much as it pains me to say it, the Oilers are in a much better position to climb out of the toilet next season than the Flames. And I doubt their management (even allowing for their inherent stupidity) can completely screw this up.

That's what they've been saying for the past 2 years. I'll believe it when I see it. I thought they'd be somewhat respectable this year, but they're pretty much bottom 6 again this year.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

That's what they've been saying for the past 2 years. I'll believe it when I see it. I thought they'd be somewhat respectable this year, but they're pretty much bottom 6 again this year.

For all of the vaunted "They're building something special" and "Vroom vroom here come the boys on the bus" and "This is the year"

I see the same old sad sack badly built team.

And now its more then just the skill in the lineup or lack of skill in the lineup, its the losing mentallity up there that should be scary.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

For all of the vaunted "They're building something special" and "Vroom vroom here come the boys on the bus" and "This is the year"

I see the same old sad sack badly built team.

And now its more then just the skill in the lineup or lack of skill in the lineup, its the losing mentallity up there that should be scary.

"Young Turks"

[Robbob]

It has gone beyond the whole "the boy that cried wolf". I can't and will not take anything seriously about the Oilers until they actually accomplish something. They have lost the benefit of doubt. Show me or shut up.

I know it isn't feasible but I would probably die laughing if somehow the Flames managed to make the playoffs before the Oilers. The collective implosion from Oiler nation would be a sight to behold.

[Sylvanfan]

The worry I would have with Hall and Eberle having long term dels is that they might start to get comfortable and not compete as hard. Especially if the team continues to not have any on ice success. We saw it a bit in Calgary with Iginla. Early on he had short term contracts to keep him motivated, but even than he didn't always play hard until Sutter started coaching the team. When he got the long term deal, and Sutter was no longer around, he didn't compete as hard as often. Part of it was certainly age, but I think the fact that he was secure, and given how bad the team had been, being able to be in the playoff race seemed good enough.

[StAlbertFlame]

The Oilers will continue to toil at or near the bottom of the NHL standings as long as they employ Kevin Lowe and the rest of the old boys club.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

The worry I would have with Hall and Eberle having long term dels is that they might start to get comfortable and not compete as hard. Especially if the team continues to not have any on ice success. We saw it a bit in Calgary with Iginla. Early on he had short term contracts to keep him motivated, but even than he didn't always play hard until Sutter started coaching the team. When he got the long term deal, and Sutter was no longer around, he didn't compete as hard as often. Part of it was certainly age, but I think the fact that he was secure, and given how bad the team had been, being able to be in the playoff race seemed good enough.

You're already seeing it with Eberle. The guy has checked out in a tonne of games this season.

Taylor Hall, despite a face you'd love to punch, is a gamer and he's the guy on the Oilers I wouldn't worry about. He might have a bad season or two on that contract but I think he'll earn it overall

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You're already seeing it with Eberle. The guy has checked out in a tonne of games this season.

Taylor Hall, despite a face you'd love to punch, is a gamer and he's the guy on the Oilers I wouldn't worry about. He might have a bad season or two on that contract but I think he'll earn it overall

He probably will. But it's going to be pretty difficult for him to break the chains that are currently holding him back, much like it was for Iginla. When a player is around teams this bad for this long. They might lose site of what a top end team really is. Which is something I think happened to Iginla. He like Hall played on some great Junior teams, but started his NHL career on some bad ones.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

You're already seeing it with Eberle. The guy has checked out in a tonne of games this season.

Taylor Hall, despite a face you'd love to punch, is a gamer and he's the guy on the Oilers I wouldn't worry about. He might have a bad season or two on that contract but I think he'll earn it overall

Absolutely true with Eberle.
But one has to wonder about even Hall too. You can beat the try out of anyone, eventually. Oilers have lost almost 2 out of every 3 games over the last 3 seasons that Hall has been there. First it weighs on you... and then can become quite comfortable, particularly at 6M per. We'll see

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Steve Bozek

Much as it pains me to say it, the Oilers are in a much better position to climb out of the toilet next season than the Flames. And I doubt their management (even allowing for their inherent stupidity) can completely screw this up.

I could agree with you, except for that the Oilers are one of the worst offensive teams in the NHL, and are consistently among the bottom-three even-strength-scoring teams. Why is this especially problematic? Because scoring is supposed to be their strength. For such highly vaunted offensive potential, the returns can be nothing less than puzzling, and must be alarming to Oilers fans. This team is constructed to score their way out of trouble, and they can't even score enough to get into the game to begin with.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

He probably will. But it's going to be pretty difficult for him to break the chains that are currently holding him back, much like it was for Iginla. When a player is around teams this bad for this long. They might lose site of what a top end team really is. Which is something I think happened to Iginla. He like Hall played on some great Junior teams, but started his NHL career on some bad ones.

I never thought about Iginla in this context before. It sure reveals how positive the 2002 Olympics were for him. That was his breakout season, and after his stellar performance in the gold medal game, he never really looked back for the next three years, until Sutter kicked himself upstairs.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I could agree with you, except for that the Oilers are one of the worst offensive teams in the NHL, and are consistently among the bottom-three even-strength-scoring teams. Why is this especially problematic? Because scoring is supposed to be their strength. For such highly vaunted offensive potential, the returns can be nothing less than puzzling, and must be alarming to Oilers fans. This team is constructed to score their way out of trouble, and they can't even score enough to get into the game to begin with.

I think the issue is that the Oilers have rebuilt an '80s styled team in an era where there is no Gretzky or Kurri to use. The players they've drafted are still on course to likely be 1st line roster players, but don't have the game stealing talent the franchise players do. And it's tough to build a team around that calibre of player since, while you have solid pieces, they can't score at such an elite level.

What the Oilers really need is to tank in years like 2003 or now. When you get the once in 10 year pieces with a #1 pick, then you have a player to build around. You can't build a team off of the Halls and Yakupovs.

Alternatively, you get lucky when your already good prospect suddenly skyrockets ala Iginla.

I don't see their current scoring as an issue...their main players are scoring around where they should be. That's all learning. And they can probably cobble together a support team for the 2nd and lower lines.

If they're planning to run the forwards they have, the biggest concern is shoring up solid two-way D who can protect Dubnyk, should they opt for him as their future, and support up ice rushes made by their forwards. It's really why Murray could have helped out a lot. He's not Niedermeyer, but he's got that three-zone game that the Oilers really need.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by $ven27

A center depth of Seguin and RNH/Huberdeau + Murray on the back end is a solid trio to build around.

xx-Seguin/Huberdeau-Eberle
xx-Seguin/Huberdeau-Gagner?

Murray-Schultz
xxx-xxx
xxx-xxx

Now that would be much better, so I'm glad they picked who they did.

I'm responding to a post from a OOT Scorboard thread but it seems more appropriate here.

Huberdeau looks like may stay as a LW in the NHL much like his role on Team Canada. He was drafted as a LW/C I believe, didn't Phillips centre him in junior?

I think arguably the Hall and RNH picks don't look bad. It's still too early to say on Yakupov. A year later Galchenyuk and Trouba can be argued for IMO. In retrospect however they could sure use a player like Landeskog. I think he's a lot harder to play against than RNH is. I don't think RNH over Landeskog is necessarily a mistake but it seems like EDM could use some size and strength.

To me none of the #1 picks looks like a clear mistake and yet as has been pointed out by Flames fans the fit of them together as the core does lack certain elements. They don't have a powerforward among their elite young guys, really lack in size at centre and didn't spend any of their top picks on defensemen. They could have found a better balance with different picks that's for sure.

You can make interesting combos out of:
2007: Voracek/Couture (they took Gagner)
2008: Eberle
2010: Seguin/Hall
2011: RNH/Landeskog/Hamilton(deal down)
2012: Yakupov/Galchenyuk/Trouba(deal down)

I mean Sam Gagner is a really good NHLer. But if you end up picking RNH as well that is just too small at centre. I guess they didn't expect they'd be drafting higher 3 of the next 5 years and have multiple chances to draft legit 1st line centres. Voracek/Couture arguably would be upgrades there with how things turned out but they couldn't necessarily know that at the time.

Couture, Eberle, Hall, Landeskog, Galchenyuk
Voracek, Eberle, Seguin, RNH, Trouba (deal down)
Couture, Eberle, Seguin, Landeskog, Yakupov
Voracek, Eberle, Seguin, Landeskog, Galchenyuk

Seem a bit more balanced to me.

They took:
Gagner, Eberle, Hall, RNH, Yakupov

The problem as I see it is that too many similar players were picked. And they failed to find certain key commodities that are hard to acquire and championship teams are made of.

Gagner and RNH are both small, skilled centres. Really tough for them to physically match up against the Getzlaf, Toews, Malkin, Thornton, Koivu type centres especially in the defensive zone. Tough for them to power through big defensemen as well. So a smaller centre can be physically shut down easier and has a much tougher time defending against big, strong centres.

Hall and Yakupov are both quick strike, fast, goal scorers.

Small, skilled centres and goal scoring wingers can be a nice part of a championship team. But I think you find a lot of championship teams have some size at centre, often have a powerforward or two and at least one really strong top pairing defenseman. Somehow with a #6 pick, and three #1 picks they didn't end up with a big centreman, a potential top pairing defenseman or a powerforward. Those are potentially the hardest commodities in hockey to find. I mean elite goalscorers are hard to find but them being traded is not exactly unheard of (Kovalchuk, Hossa, Gaborik, Heatley, Nash have all moved once or more often and now even Iginla.) Big, #1 centres are moved less often IMO. And skilled powerforwards might be one of the rarest commodities in hockey. It's hard to name more than a handful.

I think Seguin (size at centre) and Landeskog (powerforward) would have changed the complexion of their forward core quite nicely. Easy to rationalize why they took the guys they did, as I said each pick is quite defensible but when you look at what they ended up with they are missing some key elements of your typical championship team.

This draft they have a chance to take size at centre (Monahan) or a potential top pairing defenseman (Nurse). Drafting Monahan or Lindholm seems to make Gagner redundant which makes that pick and not grabbing Voracek or Couture seem like a mistake with hindsight. And that is why most teams don't draft tiny centres early.