Justin Trudeau running for Liberal leadership

[Jacks]

Then cabinet minister Copps compared Manning to David Duke the KKK leader calling him racist.

They trotted Kinsella onto TV with a Barney dinosuar to ridicule Day.

Google it if you want a link.

Edit: Here
http://olearycopywriting.com/uploads...g-Telegram.pdf

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by redforever

Yes, he got the Reform and Conservatives to fight among themselves, splitting that voting segment. He never got any better percentage of the popular vote than Harper did.

You give Chretien credit he does not deserve there. The Mulrooney PCs split massively because of their own internal strife, causing the PC-Reform split, and even giving the Bloq a good boost. Chretien and the Liberals were major beneficiaries of that, but they didn't cause any of it.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Then cabinet minister Copps compared Manning to David Duke the KKK leader calling him racist.

They trotted Kinsella onto TV with a Barney dinosuar to ridicule Day.

Google it if you want a link.

Edit: Here
http://olearycopywriting.com/uploads...g-Telegram.pdf

I'm pretty sure the Reform Party's infamous "Blue Sheet" played a big role in that label.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Jacks

Then cabinet minister Copps compared Manning to David Duke the KKK leader calling him racist.

They trotted Kinsella onto TV with a Barney dinosuar to ridicule Day.

Google it if you want a link.

Edit: Here
http://olearycopywriting.com/uploads...g-Telegram.pdf

Re: Copps vs. Manning:

First, Sheila Copps was not a cabinet minister in 1991 (Brian Mulroney's PC government was still in power).

Second, do you have a link to her actual quote? The PDF doesn't state exactly what she said, only that she accused Manning of being a racist.

Third, it sounds like this was something she said either in the HoC or during an interview; not a paid television ad running outside an election campaign.

Re: Kinsella vs. Day:

His appearance on Canada AM with the Barney doll occurred during the 2000 election campaign. It was not a paid television ad that aired two years before the next election.

And frankly, anyone who believes that the Earth is litererally 6000 years old and that humans co-existed with dinosaurs is worthy of being ridiculed. That wasn't a debate about how to best balance taxation and government spending in which reasonable people can have a reasonable disagreement. That was a case where the leader of a national party genuinely believes abject nonsense.

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Re: Copps vs. Manning:

First, Sheila Copps was not a cabinet minister in 1991 (Brian Mulroney's PC government was still in power).

Second, do you have a link to her actual quote? The PDF doesn't state exactly what she said, only that she accused Manning of being a racist.

Third, it sounds like this was something she said either in the HoC or during an interview; not a paid television ad running outside an election campaign.

Re: Kinsella vs. Day:

His appearance on Canada AM with the Barney doll occurred during the 2000 election campaign. It was not a paid television ad that aired two years before the next election.

And frankly, anyone who believes that the Earth is litererally 6000 years old and that humans co-existed with dinosaurs is worthy of being ridiculed. That wasn't a debate about how to best balance taxation and government spending in which reasonable people can have a reasonable disagreement. That was a case where the leader of a national party genuinely believes abject nonsense.

Jacks is just like the Party he supports.

He throws all kinds of crap against the wall and hopes no one fact checks it.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You give Chretien credit he does not deserve there. The Mulrooney PCs split massively because of their own internal strife, causing the PC-Reform split, and even giving the Bloq a good boost. Chretien and the Liberals were major beneficiaries of that, but they didn't cause any of it.

This is all very true. Brian Mulroney made a deal with the devil to get his party elected. In order to win votes in Quebec, he appealed to separatists who were upset with the Liberals after Trudeau repatriated the constitution without Quebec's agreement. Lucian Bouchard, who later became the first leader of the Bloc Quebecois, was even a cabinet minister in Mulroney's government!

Mulroney's winning coalition in 1984 and 1988 consisted of Quebec separatists, pro-free trade business leaders, and Western conservatives. By the time the 1993 election rolled around, two of those groups had split off to form their own parties (BQ and Reform), and the Liberals had shifted position and now embraced free trade, leaving the PC Party without much of a base.

[Jacks]

I don't have the exact quote, hard to find stuff from over 20 years ago.

Can't really find records of when attack ads originally aired but I remember Harper being targetted after becoming leader.

You may feel that people who are religious deserve to be ridiculed but we do have freedom of religion in this country. I'm personally not religious at all but if you're going to slam one then you should call the Buddists and Muslims morons too.

[MarchHare]

You may feel that people who are religious deserve to be ridiculed but we do have freedom of religion in this country. I'm personally not religious at all but if you're going to slam one then you should call the Buddists and Muslims morons too.

I didn't say that religious people deserve to be ridiculed. I said that people who believe that the Earth is literally 6000 years old and that humans and dinosaurs co-existed deserve to be ridiculed.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I'm pretty much just talking out of my ass.

Fixed.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I didn't say that religious people deserve to be ridiculed. I said that people who believe that the Earth is literally 6000 years old and that humans and dinosaurs co-existed deserve to be ridiculed.

Not only that, but is ridiculing someone based on this kind of belief even as close to the gutter garbage that is mocking someone for participating in a charity even to fight liver disease?

"Way to be a humanitarian, ######!"

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I didn't say that religious people deserve to be ridiculed. I said that people who believe that the Earth is literally 6000 years old and that humans and dinosaurs co-existed deserve to be ridiculed.

So you're okay with the whole "big guy in the sky created the earth and heavens in 6 days" stuff?

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Jacks is just like the Party he supports.

He throws all kinds of crap against the wall and hopes no one fact checks it.

Originally Posted by rubecube

Fixed.

You add nothing but insults. Ignore list.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Jacks

So you're okay with the whole "big guy in the sky created the earth and heavens in 6 days" stuff?

I'll bite. I think anyone who takes a strictly literal approach to religion that affects their policy decisions is probably not the best fit for public office.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Jacks

So you're okay with the whole "big guy in the sky created the earth and heavens in 6 days" stuff?

The overwhelming majority of Christians and Jews around the world do not believe that the creation myth as described in Genesis 1 is the literal truth. It's only a relatively small number of evangelical Christians who believe that.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Jacks

You add nothing but insults. Ignore list.

Well my day is ruined.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I don't have the exact quote, hard to find stuff from over 20 years ago.

Can't really find records of when attack ads originally aired but I remember Harper being targetted after becoming leader.

You may feel that people who are religious deserve to be ridiculed but we do have freedom of religion in this country. I'm personally not religious at all but if you're going to slam one then you should call the Buddists and Muslims morons too.

I will say that I'm completely against any religious bashing, and it should have no part in politics. If there were attack ads put forth about Stockwell Day and his beliefs then I have no problem in calling them deplorable. I'm just not convinced they ever existed though.

What I do find striking is that with some recent events, Harper and the PCs have rightly come out against bullying. A week later they put out this attack ad, which has nothing to do with any issues and is virtually the same thing. I mainly laugh at attack ads honestly; I don't find them offensive in the least and I don't care which party they're for/against. I just wish that politicians and parties would grow-up in general though.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

The overwhelming majority of Christians and Jews around the world do not believe that the creation myth as described in Genesis 1 is the literal truth. It's only a relatively small number of evangelical Christians who believe that.

You obviously know more about religion than I do but the point was that most of the ideas seem outlandish to people who don't believe in that particular religion. It's a cheap shot to ridicule people based on their religious beliefs when those very beliefs are protected by the charter. Anyway, this thread has drifted way off topic.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Slava

What I do find striking is that with some recent events, Harper and the PCs have rightly come out against bullying. A week later they put out this attack ad, which has nothing to do with any issues and is virtually the same thing.

Are you saying that Trudeau is being bullied? seriously?

That term is so badly overused lately. Politics is a blood sport, every time Trudeau opens his mouth he attacks Harper.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

You give Chretien credit he does not deserve there. The Mulrooney PCs split massively because of their own internal strife, causing the PC-Reform split, and even giving the Bloq a good boost. Chretien and the Liberals were major beneficiaries of that, but they didn't cause any of it.

You could basically the say the same thing about Haper and the Conservatives in the post-Chretien years.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Jacks

You obviously know more about religion than I do but the point was that most of the ideas seem outlandish to people who don't believe in that particular religion. It's a cheap shot to ridicule people based on their religious beliefs when those very beliefs are protected by the charter.

Young Earth creationism seems outlandish because there is a mountain of evidence from multiple different scientific fields that demonstrates how erroneous and foolish it is to have such a view. I certainly have doubts about the rationality and cognitive capacity of anyone who professes to believe that the Earth is literally 6000 years old, and Canadian voters are right to question the judgement of a party leader who holds those beliefs.

I'm not even sure why you brought the Charter into this. Freedom of Religion guarantees that people like Stockwell Day are free to believe that the Earth is 6000 years old without fear of government persecution. It doesn't mean that voters can't use his ridiculous beliefs as a very legitimate reason to elect another candidate.