Standings Death for Seth?

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

If things unfold as they appear to be by season's end, I'd rather have the 2nd rounder than Ramo.

If Ramo turns into the next starter, I don't know why you would feel that way. The chances of a 31st overall pick turning into an impact player is relatively small.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Brannigans Law

People are over-reacting. The season is young. Dion is just in a slump and will bounce back. I think once things with Mike Keenan get settled we'll be ok under his system. Oops wrong year. Sorry

People are over-reacting. The season is young. Bouwmeester is just adjusting to the Western Conference. I think once things with Brent Sutter get settled we'll be ok under his system. Oops wrong year. Sorry

People are over-reacting. The season is young. We need to Brent work his system with his new secondary pieces and Iginla will get his goals. I think once things with Bouwmeester and this defensive core get settled we'll be ok under his system. Oops wrong year. Sorry

Yeah the problem right here is that team wasn't allowed to get settled. That was a good team. And the subsequent terribleness was in wake of pushing the panic button then.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's going to be painful to watch Montreal take a nice player with that 2nd. Just like it sucked that we had to trade down this year to replenish our 2nd..

But again why? If Ramo turns into the next starting goalie (I realize that it is an if - but so is picking a good player in the early 2nd), there's nothing wrong with giving up that 2nd.

I agree the Flames need to stop trading 2nds - but moving one for a potential starting goalie isn't terrible in the least.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Muta

If we had a top three pick, we shouldnt be surprised if we end up trading that down to a 7th or 8th and then getting a 2nd rounder out of the deal.

I would be extremely surprised if that scenario happened. I think a trade down that far might be worth more than a 2nd rounder. And I doubt this is the kind of draft where you'd want to trade out of the top 3.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If Ramo turns into the next start, I don't know why you would feel that way. The chances of a 31st overall pick turning into an impact player is relatively small.

I wonder if he would rather have the 2nd we gave up for Kiprusoff as well.

Not to mention the fallacy of directly equating two parts of a multi-player trade to each other.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

But again why? If Ramo turns into the next starting goalie (I realize that it is an if - but so is picking a good player in the early 2nd), there's nothing wrong with giving up that 2nd.

I agree the Flames need to stop trading 2nds - but moving one for a potential starting goalie isn't terrible in the least.

It's not terrible in a vacuum, but the fact that it's become a habit is a problem to me.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by RobDoupe

People thought Eric Johnson and Jack Johnson were can't miss stud defencemen too.

They are. They are both legitimate top pairing guys for their team. Not necessarily Norris candidates though I'll give you that.

Frankly Seth Jones looks more impressive than either of them did at the same age.

Can't go wrong with MacKinnon or Jones IMO. Jones is a rare, rare talent. MacKinnon fits our needs but so does Jones.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by indes

If we go with a defenseman I would probably cry and realize this franchise is going nowhere for the next 5 years.

No point drafting Seth so we can wait 5 years for him to develop, D take too long and are too unpredictable

A guy like Jones looks NHL ready right now. Not sure D are any more unpredictable than F. The bust rate is pretty similar from what I've seen. Some years defensemen can actually be safer picks.

[afc wimbledon]

This is a dumb effing arguement, the window for a rebuild has closed, the age, lack of performance and salary structure of the league makes it fairly irrelavant what you do with the Kipper Iginla and co, history plus the start to the season indicates the team isn't making the playoffs and probably wont for a while.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

It's not terrible in a vacuum, but the fact that it's become a habit is a problem to me.

Sure, I don't think anyone disagrees. But every move should be assessed on its own merit.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Sure, I don't think anyone disagrees. But every move should be assessed on its own merit.

I don't disagree with that, I just think that the merit isn't solely affected by this piece for that piece in a situation like this. Past move and prospect base also impact the merit on an organizational level.

Like I said, it's not going to kill me or kill the franchise, it's just going to be painful to have to watch it again.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

They are. They are both legitimate top pairing guys for their team. Not necessarily Norris candidates though I'll give you that.

Frankly Seth Jones looks more impressive than either of them did at the same age.

Can't go wrong with MacKinnon or Jones IMO. Jones is a rare, rare talent. MacKinnon fits our needs but so does Jones.

If the Calgary Flames have an opportunity to draft a guy thats being pegged as #1 centre they have to do it. If they passed that up after years of messing around trying to fit round pegs into the square #1C hole then....well....

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Locke

If the Calgary Flames have an opportunity to draft a guy thats being pegged as #1 centre they have to do it. If they passed that up after years of messing around trying to fit round pegs into the square #1C hole then....well....

Agreed. That said this Jones guy might be the best defensive prospect I've ever seen in my time of following the draft (didn't see any of Doughty in his draft year.) So like I said I don't think you can go wrong. Pronger dragged some teams to the cup so #1 d-men are obviously quite valuable too.

I've been hoping the Flames would draft a big #1 centre since '97. I'd be ecstatic to get MacKinnon. That said I think Jankowski might be our best bet to get a big #1 centre since we drafted Nieuwendyk. I really like the Jankowski pick.

So yeah I'm all for getting a #1 centre. But at the same time I'm not automatically turning down the #1 d-man, its worth debating. IMO in our prospect pool we have a better chance of getting a #1 centreman out of Jankowksi or perhaps even Backlund than we do of getting a #1 d-man out of Wotherspoon/Culkin/Kulak/Brodie/etc.

So like I keep saying I don't think you could go wrong with the #1 pick taking MacKinnon or Jones. Both rare talents, both rare commodities at their position. Flames can really use a #1 centre and a #1 d-man.

[FlamesAddiction]

If you think Jones is the next Pronger, then you take him even if Matt Stajan is our #1 centre.

[Caged Great]

I'd prefer Not Winnin for MacKinnon or Boo'in for Drouin than Death for Seth. I'd I'd be alright with Farkov for Barkov as well.

[Calgary4LIfe]

In regards to 'tanking' - I never agree with purposeful tanking. Just play hard and always try to win. That is the best recipe for success in sports.

With that being said, will the Flames make some very big moves trading out some veterans for some picks/prospects? I think by game #20 the Flames will be much more telling of what will happen. I expect Iginla to be shopped if the Flames are not in a playoff spot by then, with the trade finally taking place by the deadline (by the way, when is the deadline this year?).

I think the writing is on the wall this season with regards to Iginla. I don't always put too much emphasis on 'reading between the lines', but this time with Iginla, it is different. It just seems the organization and Iginla are mutually going to decide what happens by the deadline with regards to him.

Question will really be at that time, how deep will that go? How many vets will be moved? I really don't think it will be a full-blown rebuild.

For the immediate future, I actually anticipate a trade very quickly. I am sure Feaster is shopping around a defencemen, and possibly a winger. Depth is good, but there are too many guys on 1-way contracts. Flames seemed really happy with the way many players from the Heat were able to jump up and provide depth last season with all the injuries (and the team did fairly well then).

Now.. Jones or MacKinnon? In my opinion, having an elite defender = having an elite center. Seems neither one is something that is missing from Stanley Cup winners. You need impact players. I would be happy if the Flames drafted either of them. Besides, the real catch is McDavid after all, right? At any rate, building a Stanley Cup contender is about gaining as many impact players as possible, surrounding them with good depth, and supplying excellent coaching that fits your team. I don't think the Flames would be rebuilding for as long if they were to finish last in the standings as compared to Edmonton - I think the Flames' scouting is much better than Edmonton's, and the Flames still have a lot of young and capable defenders, with a few more slowly coming up the pipeline that should at least provide depth and some stability.

This will be an interesting shortened season for the Flames. I will be amazed if they finish in the bottom 5 of the league without moving some key guys. Yes, they are bottom 5 now, but would be very surprised if they continue being THIS bad. They may not make the playoffs, but I doubt they finish anywhere in the lottery pick realm without trading a lot of their vets. Question is, should they? I think they will be more inclined to answer that question at game 20.

[868904]

IF the Flames get the 1st overall and Jones is the clear cut top pick, they should be trying to milk further assets from the team holding the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th pick in exchange for the 1st overall, so they can draft one of the centres and pick up an additional asset.

I don't think the Flames will get the 1st overall anyways. This team will finish with one of the the last picks of the lottery teams as usual after the team goes on a late season winning streak to screw themselves of a good pick again. same old same old.

Imagine if this team's ownership wasn't delusional, we would have traded off assets last year at the deadline and finished bottom five and could be watching Galchenyuk and Baertschi right now plus a bunch of other young assets.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

They may not make the playoffs, but I doubt they finish anywhere in the lottery pick realm without trading a lot of their vets. Question is, should they? I think they will be more inclined to answer that question at game 20.

Isn't any team not in the playoffs now given a shot at number 1?

[$ven27]

Of course I never want to see the team purposely lose, or lose in general. However if this is the season that we end up in the bottom 5, it's one of the best drafts in years to do so.

[Locke]

I'm envisioning the Flames getting royally screwed by the revision to the draft lottery system.

This time the team will finish in a place where they should get a good pick only to get screwed by the new lottery system and get leapfrogged.