Standings Death for Seth?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

When I'm watching the games I'm hoping for them to win, but there is a silver lining to a bad season. This team needs a succession plan - a new wave of core players to build around. Sven is one. They need more. I think there are 3 guys at the top of the draft that are franchise changers, and then 3 or 4 more that would be guys that are just a step below.

Grabbing one of those could potentially accelerate a turnaround.

I don't disagree. However, there is a difference between accepting what happens - including losing and the consequences (trades) that often go with it - and wanting it.

"Standings death for Seth"? I'm sorry, that is just the talk of a loser.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

I don't disagree. However, there is a difference between accepting what happens - including losing and the consequences (trades) that often go with it - and wanting it.

"Standings death for Seth"? I'm sorry, that is just the talk of a loser.

edit: nm

I think what you are saying is what the OP is getting at. I doubt that he "wants" the team to lose.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

edit: nm

I think what you are saying is what the OP is getting at. I doubt that he "wants" the team to lose.

Anyone who wants to quit after five games wants to lose.

Anyone who wants to finish last in the league is a loser.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Anyone who wants to quit after five games wants to lose.

Anyone who wants to finish last in the league is a loser.

None of us are playing the games. We can wish for all sorts of things, it doesn't make any of us "losers." Maybe if we were actually NHLers and strove to suck just so we could lose, then, yeah.

[nik-]

As I said in the other thread, if we somehow ended up with the first overall pick and we didn't take the potential elite center, I legitimately think that it would kill any faith I have left in this team. Considering it's been 17 years since we had a number 1 center, I don't think I could handle it if they picked the D Man.

I do really worry about their choice with a high draft pick because of the Jankowski pick. I'm worried they'll think they're a little too clever.

[kyuss275]

Way to early for this thread title. The flames have enough talent on this team from keeping them away from a top 1-2 pick. Kipper will get hot , Iggy will start to score, and the free agent pick ups look good. The only way they get a top 1-2 pick is if they start a fire sale at game 10. Thats not going to happen.

This is going to be a lot like the last 2 seasons, they start of bad, get good, probably fall short. Feaster and ownership will be in denial and think the bad start was becasue of a new coach and system and not trade the vets.

I would not be shocked if the flames made a big trade to try and help them get to 8th spot, rather than letting them miss the playoffs. I highly doubt they would trade 1st's or Sven, but would not be shocked to see them trade a Gaudreau or Brodie. Before you guys go off on me about trading them, I do not want to see them traded at all just my gut feeling. Ownerhsip and management seem like they would go to great lengths to make the playoffs and to try and convince Iggy to stay.


On a side note, am i the only one that would rather have Barkov rather than Seth Jones? Don't get me wrong Jones is going to be great, but i think Barkov will be just as great and plays center. Maybe all the years of not having a center man has clouded my judgement.

[The Fonz]

I'd rather they got MacKinnon than Jones.

I'm so tired of hearing about "the search for a #1 C".

[Rhettzky]

What are the rules for the draft lottery this year? Is it the same odds as before only this time you can move up from 14th to 1st? Or are the odds different altogether?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

What are the rules for the draft lottery this year? Is it the same odds as before only this time you can move up from 14th to 1st? Or are the odds different altogether?

The odds of winning the lottery are the same, I believe. But the odds of getting the top pick have changed dramatically for some positions. Finishing last used to get you a 48.6% chance of picking first overall. Now it is only 25%.

[CliffFletcher]

I'd take MacKinnon, Barkov, and Drouin before Jones. Defencemen are so much harder to project at this age. People thought Eric Johnson and Jack Johnson were can't miss stud defencemen too.

[Table 5]

Does anyone know yet if they hold a lottery for all the subsequent 13 picks, or just the first 1? Ie, does the 14th place team have a chance at the 4th pick too?

[magicpixels]

Our management is too blind to be willing to do it. They think we have enough magic pixie dust to be able to chase 8th spot.

People are too attached to players and that's the problem. I love Iginla and Kipper. But I love the Flames, not just the players. I've been telling people this since december.

Trade Iginla.
Trade Kipper.

Get back two reasonable prospects. I think getting Schenn for Iginla is totally doable which would be one good starting block. Picking up a young D-man for Kipper.

The team will most certainly tank to a bottom 3 team and will pick in the top 3. Who cares if we tank in a 48 game season.

The highest we've ever picked in 6th. I would argue that trading Kipper and Iginla for two decent prospects would put us in a position immediately next year to push for the playoffs.

We'll have a good goalie coming in with Ramo.

The big problem is. Calgary fans tends to be blind and delusional. Ya know we need to keep Iggy and Kipper cuz their flames.

Remember if you can trade Gretzky you can trade anybody.

[Coach]

People are pushing the panic button waaaay to early here. The team is implimenting a system that is dramatically different from the one they've been playiong for the past few years.

I think the team is largely improved from last year and the team is at least entertaining to watch which is more than I can say for the past couple years of Flames hockey.

And also, failing is not winning. No matter how Bob MacKenzie, Dreger et al want to spin it. It is an embarrasing way to attempt to build a team and it should be punished not encouraged.

[The Fonz]

I would love to see a breakdown of the odds. Anyone know where to find?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I would love to see a breakdown of the odds. Anyone know where to find?

They haven't really been announced yet. Last week Bob Mckenzie was talking that there is a framework for them at the moment, but they will be re-done in order to better favour the bottom teams.

[magicpixels]

Originally Posted by MattyC

People are pushing the panic button waaaay to early here. The team is implimenting a system that is dramatically different from the one they've been playiong for the past few years.

I think the team is largely improved from last year and the team is at least entertaining to watch which is more than I can say for the past couple years of Flames hockey.

And also, failing is not winning. No matter how Bob MacKenzie, Dreger et al want to spin it. It is an embarrasing way to attempt to build a team and it should be punished not encouraged.

They just got routed by the worst team in the league. A team that's missing it's entire first line and was playing its 3rd game in 4 nights. A team that scored only 1 goal in their previous 3 games.

When you lose to teams like this it's time to take a step back and seriously look at who you are and where you are going.

They aren't going to be in the playoffs and that's obvious.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why must it either be one or the other?

The thing I don't get in this constant argument is the notion that the Flames only have two choices: either to embark on a scorched earth rebuild, or to continue to attempt to ice competitive teams via free agency and trades each year in hopes of making the playoffs at the expense of the longer term future. I just don't see either currently at work in the Flames organisation. Rather, it seems to me that management is taking a more patient approach: gradual turnover in the roster and restocking through the draft, supplemented by the free agent market. This is my interpretation of the last couple of drafts and also the way in which Feaster has constructed the current roster.

I don't think there are many serious Flames fans who actually believe that the current group is now or at any point in the next couple of seasons a legitimate contender in the League. However, I also think that this is not otherwise some egregious oversight on the part of management that urgently must be corrected. Could another alternative simply be that the next couple of seasons are transition periods through which the team is rebuilt more gradually?

I would strongly disagree that the Flames aren't signing free agents and making trades to try and make the playoffs every year. We did sign 2 free agents to long-term, $4m+ dollar deals this summer. We did trade away a 2nd rounder and a prospect to acquire Cammalleri last year. We signed a 32-year old Tanguay to a 5 year deal two summers ago. Those are all clear moves towards aging veterans with a focus on winning now.

Either way, this idea of "gradually" improving the roster is the same strategy that 75% of the league employs. Except we're starting from behind everyone else given our lack of prospect depth and the fact that our main roster doesn't have a single impact player between the ages of 23-27 (almost all other teams have one or the other). So not only do we have to beat everyone at their own game - we have to do so starting at a disadvantage. Sounds like a prudent strategy to me.

[indes]

If we go with a defenseman I would probably cry and realize this franchise is going nowhere for the next 5 years.

No point drafting Seth so we can wait 5 years for him to develop, D take too long and are too unpredictable

[Tailgator]

Originally Posted by gargamel

No to the idea and no to the rhyme.

How about "Not Winnin' for McKinnon" then?kidding.....

[magicpixels]

Originally Posted by JayP

I would strongly disagree that the Flames aren't signing free agents and making trades to try and make the playoffs every year. We did sign 2 free agents to long-term, $4m+ dollar deals this summer. We did trade away a 2nd rounder and a prospect to acquire Cammalleri last year. We signed a 32-year old Tanguay to a 5 year deal two summers ago. Those are all clear moves towards aging veterans with a focus on winning now.

Either way, this idea of "gradually" improving the roster is the same strategy that 75% of the league employs. Except we're starting from behind everyone else given our lack of prospect depth and the fact that our main roster doesn't have a single impact player between the ages of 23-27 (almost all other teams have one or the other). So not only do we have to beat everyone at their own game - we have to do so starting at a disadvantage. Sounds like a prudent strategy to me.

In all fairness we didn't trade a pick for Cammy. We traded Bourque straight up for him which is a steal. The 2nd round pick was given for Ramo.

You pointed out our problem fairly well. We are an aging team and it's hard to expect us to compete well against teams that are significantly younger.

It's fair to say for guys like Iginly, Tanguay, Kipper, etc that their best years are behind them.