[PGT] Flames lose 6-3 vs Avs

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Yes, but Hartley will ride them until they produce or get traded. And at this juncture, cannot afford to do either. Sadly I think Hartley is in a lose lose situation until those four guys get going. Only one out of the first group that should get ice time is Stempniak, Only because he has had a hot hand.

I sunderstand that Cervenkas line has a ton of mojo going right now but Obviously Cervenka can handle the center spot so why not move tangs back to the wing and spread the love around? And Glencross really really needs to be on the third line. Like that he has been okay on the top line but come one. we have the fire power now to move him where he is best suited.

I don't agree. If your second line has generated 6-points and the only point, your top line has generated was when one of them got stuck out on the ice during a shift change and scored on the work of the second line, then you should give that second line more minutes. When your second PP unit is generating chances on the PP and your first PP unit is playing the 200 feet puck fetch mini game then you should give your second PP more ice time.

It doesn't have to be forever. But for tonight, to win this game, put out the lines that are generating. Hell, if you want to get Iginla going throw him out for a shift with Backlund and Cammalleri. Or put Hudler in Glencross's spot for a few shifts. Something.

[Mr.Coffee]

The thing about first lines, is that when they don't produce anything they aren't first lines, they are second or third lines but start the game.

I think Cervenka Hudler and Stajan make up line 1.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Wow. What a meltdown here. Same song and dance from the same naysayers and doomsday prophets. Please have some perspective.

I hate to be the one to bring it up. But isn't that the problem? I mean if this was the first song and dance then I might agree with the whole over reaction thing. Have the naysayers and doomsday prophets been wrong? Because my perspective is they have been pretty darn accurate over the past few seasons.

If Aristotle predicted there would be an outbreak of green dancing midgets before the world ended. And all of a sudden there were four green dancing midget on my doorstep. I might just stop making fun of Aristotle and cash in my RRSPs to live it up for the next few weeks.

Just saying.

A great intro on the PGT on flamenation: http://flamesnation.ca/2013/2/1/post-game-buried-alive

Did we mention that the Av's were going to go this one without Ryan O'Reilly, Gabriel Landeskog, Steve Downie, and... uhh.. Oh yeah! Their backup in net!

Just thought it was appropriate with the suggestion to get some 'perspective'

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I hate to be the one to bring it up. But isn't that the problem? I mean if this was the first song and dance then I might agree with the whole over reaction thing. Have the naysayers and doomsday prophets been wrong? Because my perspective is they have been pretty darn accurate over the past few seasons.

If Aristotle predicted there would be an outbreak of green dancing midgets before the world ended. And all of a sudden there were four green dancing midget on my doorstep. I might just stop making fun of Aristotle and cash in my RRSPs to live it up for the next few weeks.

Just saying.

A lot changed this off season. The context is entirely different. There are big adjustments being made and this often does not happen overnight.

There are also a lot of assertions that are errant.

Here is a classic - Iggy has always been a slow starter. Hm. Really that is 2 of the last 3 years, under Brent. Not so much any of the other years, but let's not let facts get in the way. Reality is that he has played pretty well this year, gotten chances, and we all know he is streaky. But consensus is what it is.

The question about how many games Hartley gets. The Keenan crap. How did the team start under Brent? Awesome for about 40 games, until he fixed their problems and drove them in to the ground, where they stayed for years. This is where the doomsayers claim being right the past few years. Some people think Brent was a dumbass. "If you're gonna be an upper ethelen (sic) team, it's gonna be thrived on hard work".

Point is, this year offers a few new things that are not common to the last few seasons.

Hartley deserves more than 5 games before people are jumping out of windows. This team has generated a lot of good chances.

Deleting Olli and adding Cervenka, Hudler and Wideman... that is an upgrade.

As for Aristotle, he was a bugger for the bottle anyhow

[Mr.Coffee]

Love the people asking for perspective from the masses who now appear like they have zero. Hilarious.

[puckluck2]

The ice was once again terrible and may have cost us at least a point with the puck bouncing on Bouwmmester with 2 minutes to play.

Embarrassing ice quality at the dome. Something needs to be done about it.

[Zamboniman]

You have to know that somewhere deep in the bowels of the 'Dome late this evening as Bob sat in his office with only his desk lamp on and his head in his hands, his phone chirped.

He raised his head slowly, and looked at the screen. The text message simply read, "lol. Told ya so. Brent."

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Zamboniman

You have to know that somewhere deep in the bowels of the 'Dome late this evening as Bob sat in his office with only his desk lamp on and his head in his hands, his phone chirped.

He raised his head slowly, and looked at the screen. The text message simply read, "lol. Told ya so. Brent."

Hartley sends one back saying "Yeah, well I've still got a couple 8 or 9 goal beatings in the bank"

[H2SO4(aq)]

now fellas,

do we at least have a new top line now? srs

[calgary2220]

Its apparent that this shortened season is killer for this older team.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

1-2 points behind a bunch of teams with 2-3 games in hand. It is like when everyone was talking about the Flames getting into a playoff seed a couple of years back when they were one point up when the next team had 4 games in hand.

Thing is, you have to win games for games in hand to matter. We beat the Oilers by one goal and got embarrassed by the Avs. Those are both among the worse teams in this league. We couldn't match up against Anaheim which is a decisively average team.

An actually good team, the Sharks, needed to basicly play one period out of three to crush us.

None of these games have had that many bad bounces, terrible reffing or the opposition goalies playing out of their normal level. The results have been a rather fair represantation of the play IMO. My prediction is that we haven't yet even seen this team on a really bad day.

As much as I agree that Butler isn't very good, the 6th defenseman is not the guy losing games for us. The weakest link looks the worst, but the problem with the Flames is everything. Butlers defensive partner can't help him, forwards won't help him, goalie can't stop the puck, offense can't make up for goals against.

We're a team that's physically pushovers, very average in offensive skill, bad at defense, bad at PP, not good at PK and not good at goal.

The only positive on the season so far is that it's more fun to lose 3-6 and 3-4 than 0-3 and 1-2. Other than that, I don't think it's fair to put the losses on Hartley. He was not handed a good team playing bad like Darryl Sutter. Those are easy to turn around.

There is one glimmer of hope though. Our division is the worst in the conference.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Itse

Thing is, you have to win games for games in hand to matter. We beat the Oilers by one goal and got embarrassed by the Avs. Those are both among the worse teams in this league. We couldn't match up against Anaheim which is a decisively average team.

An actually good team, the Sharks, needed to basicly play one period out of three to crush us.

None of these games have had that many bad bounces, terrible reffing or the opposition goalies playing out of their normal level. The results have been a rather fair represantation of the play IMO. My prediction is that we haven't yet even seen this team on a really bad day.

As much as I agree that Butler isn't very good, the 6th defenseman is not the guy losing games for us. The weakest link looks the worst, but the problem with the Flames is everything. Butlers defensive partner can't help him, forwards won't help him, goalie can't stop the puck, offense can't make up for goals against.

We're a team that's physically pushovers, very average in offensive skill, bad at defense, bad at PP, not good at PK and not good at goal.

The only positive on the season so far is that it's more fun to lose 3-6 and 3-4 than 0-3 and 1-2. Other than that, I don't think it's fair to put the losses on Hartley. He was not handed a good team playing bad like Darryl Sutter. Those are easy to turn around.

There is one glimmer of hope though. Our division is the worst in the conference.

I agree that you have to do something with games in hand, but have patience.

I think there is more than one glimmer of hope. Roster upgrade, coaching upgrade. The Flames have dominated the play for long stretches of games, unlike last year. They are still adjusting to a new coach and system. Breakdowns today by a few people (notably Kipper, Butler, Bouw) cost them the game. If they play this way on the whole and fix the mental lapses, they win. It's still early.

6-3 was embarrassing on the scoresheet, but take solace in the fact that the Avs didn't win the game so much as the Flames lost it. That can be fixed.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by bugsy

I'm gonna go ahead and both appreciate the sentiment and question the sincerity of this.

Perfectly sincere, the flames are a long shot to make the season and this is an ideal year to get a high pick.

[StrykerSteve]

Anyone that honestly believes the Flames are making the playoffs this season are insane, so I agree, if you're going to miss the show, don't miss it in 9th frickin place.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I agree that you have to do something with games in hand, but have patience.

Honestly, I pretty much wrote this season off before it started. Which (maybe paradoxically mean) that I feel pretty calm in watching what I fully expect to be between a trainwreck and a meh. Not that I'm proud of that or anything, but that's just how it is for me.

But I do think the fanbase is becoming increasingly delusional. Maybe we've just watched so much bad hockey that we are losing perspective on what competitive NHL hockey actually looks like.

Leafs West. And I'm seriously starting to think that maybe I should just find a new team to follow, because I'm starting to lose interest in watching a bad team in a really impractical timezone that's not showing signs of being good in the foreseeable future. Honestly without this board it propably would have happened already. I mean, I'm not from Calgary, I don't live there, and there seems to be an ever diminishing number of players in the roster that I specifically like.

(Of course, that's not how it really works. But I've always kinda liked Minny...)

[Vinny01]

Kipper, Cammy, Giordano and Iggy need to pick their game up. Especially Kipper who has an awful save % and GAA. Iggy and Cammy need to do what they are paid to do and score (I have liked other aspects of their games). Gio looks a bit lost out there

Glencross was horrible against the Avs but generally has been good

I've been happy with Tanguay, Bouw, Stajan, Hudler, Cervenka, Stempniak, Brodie, Wideman, Backlund

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Red John

Looked like a Mike Keenan team tonight.

Gives up tons of prime scoring chances from the slot, gets outworked in the dirty areas, score a few nice goals but Kipper with a few stinkers also.

Not good. Really hard to put a positive spin on this one.

Is it a coincidence that Kipper is good years that that Flames have a defensive focus and bad in years when they have an offensive focus?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Saying the flames missed the playoffs because of the pressure of the end of the season ignores their terrible starts and middles. Mostly, near the end of the season they played their best, it just wasn't good enough. Revisionist history. Sutter did not "get the most out of the players". If so, why did nearly every player that came to Calgary post some of their worst stats?

Remember that time the flames blew leads in 4 consecutive home games after the deadline with their playoff lives on the line? Was it 4 consecutive 3rd period leads? Who can even remember anymore?

Watch Calgary go on a run to get them back in the 'playoff picture', where 'playoff picture' means 8-11th pace.

"If only we'd won more shoot outs and other consolation tie-breakers," exclaimed Flames management, "we would have had an opportunity to show that the answers are in the room."

[flambers]

Flames are just not a physical team, against a "tired" team the Flames had to play really physical. Of which they played the exact opposite....

[Roof-Daddy]

Pretty frustrated still.

With the way the team played overall, there is no way we should have lost that game last night.