[Trade] Flames acquire Roman Horak and 2x 2011 2nd rd picks for Tim Erixon and 5th rd pick

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Franchises don't WANT to sign players. It is a waste to do so.

So, if we had signed Erixon immediately to a standard 3 year ELC after his draft, what would happen?

The last 2 years would be eaten up in Sweden. We would then have only 1 year left of his ELC. It doesn't make any organizational sense to sign European players to an ELC if they are not joining your club or AHL farm team. You maintain rights without costing $$, and even more importantly, not wasting the cheap years. It isn't a fault of Sutter's - if he had signed him, and Erixon went to Sweden, then we would be really mad.

So that would be why Erixon is fed up with the Flames organization.

Rundblad ---- exact same path as Erixon becomes a RFA in 2013 -14 where Erixon has to wait till 2014-15.

Rundblad is also walking around with $90,000 signing bonus while playing on the same team as Erixon in Sweden.


Relative to Rundblad and Backlund the Flames disrespected Erixon.

The first year of Backlund's EL contract got burned while he was playing for Kelowna.

PS. Cap Geek has Erixon on the Rangers at 1.75 M cap hit. As it is the last year of the CBA there is no deferral of the EL bonus to the next year if required....


At 1.75M Erixon would have to be a lot better than Carson/Mikkelson/Pardy or would be playing in the AHL at 67,500. Negrin and Brodie both will be < $800K cap hits in the NHL ie can have both of them on the roster for less cap space than Erixon

[Walter Reed]

Originally Posted by troutman

Sutter didn't say enough, but does Feaster talk too much?

Actually, I find him refreshingly candid.
Total opposite to "mumbles" Sutter.
The Rangers are most definitely the winners in this deal. Even though the Flames were bent over, Feaster did his best to maintain his dignity. I beleive he did the best he could knowing the player held all the marbles. He's going to have to live with the questionable decisions of his predecessor for a couple years yet.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The first year of Backlund's EL contract got burned while he was playing for Kelowna.

No it didn't.

2009-10 (Year 1) - He played 54 games with Abby and 23 with Calgary
2010-11 (Year 2) - He played 1 game with Abby and 73 with Calgary
2011-12 (Year 3) - Coming up

[ricardodw]

Having Staios getting paid 2.7M and then picking up Mikkleson and then Carson kept Pelech and Brodie from getting 10 game NHL tryouts.


HOWEVER Brett Sutter had a far better NHL look in Calgary than in Carolina. Does Carolina have a worse reputation for bringing along young players?


Hint They had 11 guys 26 and under on their roster .... The Flames had 3

of course out of their 11 guys Brandon Sutter, Skinner, Tlusty, Staal are playing for any team in the NHL..... They still gave 7 guys NHL looks ahead of the "elite" young player the Flames had.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So that would be why Erixon is fed up with the Flames organization.

Rundblad ---- exact same path as Erixon becomes a RFA in 2013 -14 where Erixon has to wait till 2014-15.

Rundblad is also walking around with $90,000 signing bonus while playing on the same team as Erixon in Sweden.


Relative to Rundblad and Backlund the Flames disrespected Erixon.

The first year of Backlund's EL contract got burned while he was playing for Kelowna.

PS. Cap Geek has Erixon on the Rangers at 1.75 M cap hit. As it is the last year of the CBA there is no deferral of the EL bonus to the next year if required....


At 1.75M Erixon would have to be a lot better than Carson/Mikkelson/Pardy or would be playing in the AHL at 67,500. Negrin and Brodie both will be < $800K cap hits in the NHL ie can have both of them on the roster for less cap space than Erixon

Thats because one signed a contract with the club that drafted him, while the other refused...this is pretty simple stuff....no?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

No it didn't.

2009-10 (Year 1) - He played 54 games with Abby and 23 with Calgary
2010-11 (Year 2) - He played 1 game with Abby and 73 with Calgary
2011-12 (Year 3) - Coming up

Thanks I was wrong on Backlund ---

however he was signed in 2008-09 and played 1 game with the Flames before going to Kelowna.

Had he stayed in Sweden would have 2008-9 been the first year burned? Did the Flames just sign him after the WJC when they knew he was going to Kelowna?

However I was correct that Rundblad got treated better by St.L than Erixon......and Erixon was likely getting told this on a regular basis in Sweden.


Another reason to draft out of Canadian juniors.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Thats because one signed a contract with the club that drafted him, while the other refused...this is pretty simple stuff....no?

Did the Flames make a priority to sign Erixon in June 2010? The Blues did with Rundblad.

The Flames were greedy with the extra year of EL contract at the NHL level and got caught.

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Having Staios getting paid 2.7M and then picking up Mikkleson and then Carson kept Pelech and Brodie from getting 10 game NHL tryouts.


HOWEVER Brett Sutter had a far better NHL look in Calgary than in Carolina. Does Carolina have a worse reputation for bringing along young players?


Hint They had 11 guys 26 and under on their roster .... The Flames had 3

of course out of their 11 guys Brandon Sutter, Skinner, Tlusty, Staal are playing for any team in the NHL..... They still gave 7 guys NHL looks ahead of the "elite" young player the Flames had.

Pelech and Brodie development kept Pelech and Brodie from getting 10 game NHL tryouts in the eyes of the Calgary Flames. If Pelech and Brodie were NHL ready they would have been in the NHL and trades for Carson, and MiKkelson would not have been made. Carson is younger than Pelech and Mikkelson is the same age. I believe both are further along actually than either of Pelech or Brodie. It is the responsibility of the player to show he is NHL ready to make decisions difficult for management not to put them in the lineup. It's not the responsibility of management to say here you go, you've been in the AHL for awhile you deserve a tryout. As for Brodie, the best place for him to learn the position of defence was in the hands of Playfair, and hopefully he can push for a fulltime spot this year. He has to make the decision difficult for Calgary not to send him back. It's the way professional sports is, and should be.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Did the Flames make a priority to sign Erixon in June 2010? The Blues did with Rundblad.

The Flames were greedy with the extra year of EL contract at the NHL level and got caught.

Citation needed on both points.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by shermanator

You can't really lump Montador in with that group. In Sutter's first full year as GM, Montador was on the roster for the entire season. Sure, he only played 26 games, but he was the 7th defenceman, and at the time, that was where he belonged. In Sutter's 2nd year as GM, he was traded for Huselius. No matter how much you like Montador, Huselius is the better player.

I don't think you understant the optics of the Huselius deal. Huselius was placed on waivers before the trade. Flames could have picked him up for nothing. Flames sent Montador to get a contract off the books in exchange for Huselius's contract. He was deemed expendable with Marchment on the roster.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Franchises don't WANT to sign players. It is a waste to do so.

So, if we had signed Erixon immediately to a standard 3 year ELC after his draft, what would happen?

The last 2 years would be eaten up in Sweden. We would then have only 1 year left of his ELC. It doesn't make any organizational sense to sign European players to an ELC if they are not joining your club or AHL farm team. You maintain rights without costing $$, and even more importantly, not wasting the cheap years. It isn't a fault of Sutter's - if he had signed him, and Erixon went to Sweden, then we would be really mad.

Nope, pretty sure the years don't start ticking off an ELC til the player starts playing North American pro

[ah123]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Flames sent Montador to get a contract off the books in exchange for Huselius's contract. He was deemed expendable with Marchment on the roster.

A tidbit that is not known (coming from someone who knows Montador at a personal level) - Montador asked Sutter for more playing time, and Sutter replied that if he could not get give Montador the opportunity here, he would try and trade him somewhere where he could play.

Not sure if that was a factor in the Huselius/Montador exchange.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Flames were greedy with the extra year of EL contract at the NHL level and got caught.

Nope, pretty sure you don't have a grasp on when years of an ELC start getting used up

[flambers]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Did the Flames make a priority to sign Erixon in June 2010? The Blues did with Rundblad.

The Flames were greedy with the extra year of EL contract at the NHL level and got caught.

I believe it was mentioned on the Radio/Feaster Interview that the Flames / Sutter did try to sign him back in 2010 but there were issues (i.e. Flames back then wanted Erixon to goto AHL instead of Europe if he did not make the team.)

[OldSam]

I didn't read the whole thread but I am glad there are suggestions of tampering by the Rangers, and admissions that the agent and the player weren't going to sign here no matter what. Some media are playing it like the Flames are not a good place to go for players. That is hogwash. Feaster said he offered them whatever they wanted. I think the correct angle is the Jay Grossman agency did their usual "the player goes where he wants and to he$$ with any rights of the team" and the idea that an agent can tell what the team will do before the decisions are made is rubbish.

The kid hasn't played an NHL game and he thinks he can dictate his future. I don't care how good he is (or isn't), good riddance.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

Tough pill to swallow however at least we got some picks in return. Tim obviously didnt want to be a Flame for whatever reason. So good riddance.

Just because I want to lets look at all Darryls 1st rounders. I like Darryl but this is why he is unemployed.

2003 - Dion Phaneuf - Great start, then Egomaniac,traded for nothing and now looks like he may improve.

2004 - Kris Chucko- Bust

2005- Matt Pelech- Make or break it year, may have also passed last year

2006- Leland Irving- May be a backup this year, starting to show promise

2007- Michael Backlund- Showing signs he can be a player in this league

2008- Greg Nemisz - May be a in the big leagues some day

2009- Tim Erixon- Traded to NYR For picks and prospect, looks like a gem

2010- See Olli Jokinen lol

What's your point? That drafting is why Sutter is unemployed?

2003 - Phaneuf is a headcase, questionable in the locker room
2004 - All right
2005 - Questionable pick, but before the injury showed a lot of promise
2006 - Goalies take a while to develop, showing promise
2007 - Great pick, especially for where he was taken. Gold.
2008 - Showing some promise, potential 2/3rd line, not bad.
2009 - Sutter can't see the future. Right now, I doubt he would pick him. Too bad Erixon is a....you know what... How can you blame Sutter???
2010 - We got a #1 Center at that time. Most of us loved that deal, nobody thought we would fail as much as we did last year.

So, again, what's your point? You can blame Sutter for a lot of things, but the examples you have shown are not the reason he got canned.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Nope, pretty sure you don't have a grasp on when years of an ELC start getting used up

What part wrt to Rundblad and Erixon do I have wrong?

If the Flames signed Erixon last summer at the same time as St.L signed Rundblad he would have 2 years left on his EL contract the same a Rundblad.

It was to the Flames advantage (and to Erixon's detriment) not to sign him until after the season ends 2011.


Rundblad signed on June 10 and 22 days later St. L traded him to Ottawa .

Right now the Rangers have Erixon on a 3-year EL contract where he makes 65K if he is sent to the AHL.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

Pelech and Brodie development kept Pelech and Brodie from getting 10 game NHL tryouts in the eyes of the Calgary Flames. If Pelech and Brodie were NHL ready they would have been in the NHL and trades for Carson, and MiKkelson would not have been made. Carson is younger than Pelech and Mikkelson is the same age. I believe both are further along actually than either of Pelech or Brodie. It is the responsibility of the player to show he is NHL ready to make decisions difficult for management not to put them in the lineup. It's not the responsibility of management to say here you go, you've been in the AHL for awhile you deserve a tryout. As for Brodie, the best place for him to learn the position of defence was in the hands of Playfair, and hopefully he can push for a fulltime spot this year. He has to make the decision difficult for Calgary not to send him back. It's the way professional sports is, and should be.

Brodie just was not ready for the NHL last season plain and simple. Now i fully agree that Pelech had a bad camp, but Staios had just as bad as camp as Pelech. People forget that Staios was just awfull to start the season, when called upon in the second half he did play well. Basically what i am saying is that Pelech and Staios were equally bad at camp, they could put Pelech down in the minors for cheap, while Staios would have cost them money.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

What's your point? That drafting is why Sutter is unemployed?

2003 - Phaneuf is a headcase, questionable in the locker room
2004 - All right
2005 - Questionable pick, but before the injury showed a lot of promise
2006 - Goalies take a while to develop, showing promise
2007 - Great pick, especially for where he was taken. Gold.
2008 - Showing some promise, potential 2/3rd line, not bad.
2009 - Sutter can't see the future. Right now, I doubt he would pick him. Too bad Erixon is a....you know what... How can you blame Sutter???
2010 - We got a #1 Center at that time. Most of us loved that deal, nobody thought we would fail as much as we did last year.

So, again, what's your point? You can blame Sutter for a lot of things, but the examples you have shown are not the reason he got canned.

That's just first rounders. From 2004-2006 we really only have Irving left out of all the people we drafted. That is not good.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Just wondering what specific examples of players that Sutter purposefully held back knowing they were ready as you mention, but still brought in a veteran ahead of them.

Some of you guys are in full denial mode. The whole world sees it except for a handful of posters here.

The Flames have a bad reputation among young players whether you guys deny it or not. When you go out and sign or trade for bums like Staios, Stajan, Byron Ritchie, and Slowdin you really aren't earning a good reputation among your young players in Abbotsford waiting for their chance.

Hopefully Feaster can do away with the reputation which is real. And that reputation is pretty well earned.