[Trade] Flames acquire Roman Horak and 2x 2011 2nd rd picks for Tim Erixon and 5th rd pick

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am still looking at this as Erixon having even less class than Lindros did.

At least Lindros told the Nerds that he did not want to go there, don't draft me. After he was drafted, he said "I will not go there, trade me."

In 3 years, Erixon didn't appear to mention anything. "Upset" or not at the draft, he showed up to all the Flames' requirements, met with Flames' officials (scouts, conditioning coach I believe, etc) in Sweden.. in a few interviews, stated how he was looking forward to coming here.

At the last hour, he (or his agent + dad) that he can just turn around and say "Trade me to NYR ONLY or I will re-enter the draft."

Seriously.. At least Lindros - and at the time it was a stench of a move that has lasted to this day - gave the Nords time to assemble trade proposals, and did not select his ONLY team.

I was really looking forward to seeing Erixon this year. I was betting he would make it, and slide into a 4th position, and allow some room to be made in terms of salary because of it - if not at the beginning of the season, then towards the deadline.

You can not possibly rule out collusion here with NYR. There is no way that any draftee should select where he wants to play. If you think you have the right to select where you want to play, stay in Sweden. How many teams would fold if the entire draft class could hand pick the teams they go to? Colombus, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Minnesota, Florida, Carolina, etc., would never get better, and would eventually fold. Pittsburgh would never had Crosby, Malkin, Staal, etc., and won the cup. Washington would still be a terrible team.

This whole thing really stinks. It stinks more than Lindros and every other player that didn't want to sign with the team. This is a player that pulled the rug underneath the feet of a franchise, and flipped the bird to a century old organization's system of fairly distributing new players in order to facilitate a stronger league over-all.

The CBA need to address this. Why won't the next 20 draft picks do this? Why did Taylor Hall - a Calgary fan - proudly stand up and walk over to Tambo and play his heart out for the 'enemy'? Why did Iggy do the same here in Calgary? Because it is the right thing to do. It was the honorable thing to do. No draftee should dictate where he wants to get to play.

Not defending Erixon because there's no excuse for the way things went down but I really believe that the PuckAgency had a lot to do with this as Feaster said in negotiations with another player they were spewing the same stuff about how many guys the Flames had under contract, ice time, etc. It seems that the agency is presently anti-Calgary and for all we know they planted the seeds of doubt with the Erixon's which is why it all came out so late.

Sounds like also Darryl Sutter should take some blame as he may have tried some hardball with them in saying that they wanted Tim to play in the AHL and earn his spot on the big club. There's nothing wrong with that stance but looking at the Flames track record even if Erixon was ready he may have ended up playing a bit longer with the Heat just because being ready hasn't been good enough in the past as if Darryl could bring in a veteran player that was no better but more experienced he would always go that route. From the Erixon's point of view you can certainly see that it would be easy for them be concerned about how their son would be handled as in the end it's big business and it may be tough to swallow their son spending (probably in their minds wasting) a year in Abbotsford when very marginal players like Staios, Pardy, Carson, etc. are playing on the Flames.

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am still looking at this as Erixon having even less class than Lindros did.

At least Lindros told the Nerds that he did not want to go there, don't draft me. After he was drafted, he said "I will not go there, trade me."

In 2 years, Erixon didn't appear to mention anything. "Upset" or not at the draft, he showed up to all the Flames' requirements, met with Flames' officials (scouts, conditioning coach I believe, etc) in Sweden.. in a few interviews, stated how he was looking forward to coming here.

At the last hour, he (or his agent + dad) that he can just turn around and say "Trade me to NYR ONLY or I will re-enter the draft."

Seriously.. At least Lindros - and at the time it was a stench of a move that has lasted to this day - gave the Nords time to assemble trade proposals, and did not select his ONLY team.

I was really looking forward to seeing Erixon this year. I was betting he would make it, and slide into a 4th position, and allow some room to be made in terms of salary because of it - if not at the beginning of the season, then towards the deadline.

You can not possibly rule out collusion here with NYR. There is no way that any draftee should select where he wants to play. If you think you have the right to select where you want to play, stay in Sweden. How many teams would fold if the entire draft class could hand pick the teams they go to? Colombus, Edmonton, Winnipeg, Minnesota, Florida, Carolina, etc., would never get better, and would eventually fold. Pittsburgh would never had Crosby, Malkin, Staal, etc., and won the cup. Washington would still be a terrible team.

This whole thing really stinks. It stinks more than Lindros and every other player that didn't want to sign with the team. This is a player that pulled the rug underneath the feet of a franchise, and flipped the bird to a century old organization's system of fairly distributing new players in order to facilitate a stronger league over-all.

The CBA need to address this. Why won't the next 20 draft picks do this? Why did Taylor Hall - a Calgary fan - proudly stand up and walk over to Tambo and play his heart out for the 'enemy'? Why did Iggy do the same here in Calgary? Because it is the right thing to do. It was the honorable thing to do. No draftee should dictate where he wants to get to play.

Wow... really?

Personally my recommendation to you is to simply move on. It is what it is, the guy obviously didn't want to be here - whether that decision was made at the beginning, in the middle, or at the end. He didn't want to be here and Feaster did as best as he could to get a decent return. The return that he got was actually quite substantial for a player that didn't want to be here.

I remember being pissed off about Jarret Stoll screwing us over as well. Was super mad at management, then he nailed 68 points in his third season in the league, added salt to the wounds. But that faded tremendously when he became just an average hockey player. Point is, if they don't wanna be here let them go, it's never a sure thing that the kid is going to be as good as he is touted. And you have to think attitude will play into his success in the NHL at some point as well. I think for Stoll it did.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not defending Erixon because there's no excuse for the way things went down but I really believe that the PuckAgency had a lot to do with this as Feaster said in negotiations with another player they were spewing the same stuff about how many guys the Flames had under contract, ice time, etc. It seems that the agency is presently anti-Calgary and for all we know they planted the seeds of doubt with the Erixon's which is why it all came out so late.

Sounds like also Darryl Sutter should take some blame as he may have tried some hardball with them in saying that they wanted Tim to play in the AHL and earn his spot on the big club. There's nothing wrong with that stance but looking at the Flames track record even if Erixon was ready he may have ended up playing a bit longer with the Heat just because being ready hasn't been good enough in the past as if Darryl could bring in a veteran player that was no better but more experienced he would always go that route. From the Erixon's point of view you can certainly see that it would be easy for them be concerned about how their son would be handled as in the end it's big business and it may be tough to swallow their son spending (probably in their minds wasting) a year in Abbotsford when very marginal players like Staios, Pardy, Carson, etc. are playing on the Flames.

Just wondering what specific examples of players that Sutter purposefully held back knowing they were ready as you mention, but still brought in a veteran ahead of them.

[fanman]

Yeah it sounds like he was given every option in his contract negotiations. He just wanted to play for daddy's team. What rookie walks in and dictates where he plays right off the bat, having never played a single NHL game or even played much on North American ice? Does he think he's Crosby or something? The reasons the Erixon camp kept coming up with not to sign just seem weak and immature. I think he will be a good player but he's still unproven in the NHL. So basically it was; thanks for using your #1 pick on me, but I've decided at the last minute that I don't want to play for you.

If he starts the season in NY and it turns out he clearly needs some time to adjust, what then? The Rangers are supposed to keep him in the lineup at the expense of an NHL ready d-man? If he's gonna show this kind of attitude I'm sure he'll get along great with Tortorella. This whole thing with his cousin and his dad part of the Rangers seems really convenient, especially considering how quickly he signed with them afterwards. Was he also offered a clause there allowing him to play in Europe? Smells like a lot of BS.

I really hope the two picks and Horak turn out something for the Flames. It's a crap position to be put it, and hopefully works out for the Flames in the long run. Bad form Erixon, bad form.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Not defending Erixon because there's no excuse for the way things went down but I really believe that the PuckAgency had a lot to do with this as Feaster said in negotiations with another player they were spewing the same stuff about how many guys the Flames had under contract, ice time, etc. It seems that the agency is presently anti-Calgary and for all we know they planted the seeds of doubt with the Erixon's which is why it all came out so late.

Sounds like also Darryl Sutter should take some blame as he may have tried some hardball with them in saying that they wanted Tim to play in the AHL and earn his spot on the big club. There's nothing wrong with that stance but looking at the Flames track record even if Erixon was ready he may have ended up playing a bit longer with the Heat just because being ready hasn't been good enough in the past as if Darryl could bring in a veteran player that was no better but more experienced he would always go that route. From the Erixon's point of view you can certainly see that it would be easy for them be concerned about how their son would be handled as in the end it's big business and it may be tough to swallow their son spending (probably in their minds wasting) a year in Abbotsford when very marginal players like Staios, Pardy, Carson, etc. are playing on the Flames.

Sounds like Sutter is very much to blame for this. The CBA allows you up to 2 years before the player re-enters the draft. Moving forward, I hope that management is more proactive and gets their top prospects signed in the first year after they are drafted. We heard all the bluster from Sutter about the price for a first rounder in the 2010 draft being Erixon. NYR's 1st round pick at position 10 would have been nice (presuming that they were that high on him and with us in a much better bargaining position than we were yesterday) and if Sutter was able to swing the deal, allowed us to draft a kid like Fowler who appears to be a similar type player as Erixon.

Part of me also thinks that perhaps the scouts made Sutter aware of Erixon's desire to play in NYR, but Sutter brushed their concerns aside and thought he would be able to sell him on Calgary and the organization.

[YYC in LAX]

####in punk.

So what deal will we make with Toronto and NYR next?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Dr. Doom

Wow... really?

Personally my recommendation to you is to simply move on. It is what it is, the guy obviously didn't want to be here - whether that decision was made at the beginning, in the middle, or at the end. He didn't want to be here and Feaster did as best as he could to get a decent return. The return that he got was actually quite substantial for a player that didn't want to be here.

I remember being pissed off about Jarret Stoll screwing us over as well. Was super mad at management, then he nailed 68 points in his third season in the league, added salt to the wounds. But that faded tremendously when he became just an average hockey player. Point is, if they don't wanna be here let them go, it's never a sure thing that the kid is going to be as good as he is touted. And you have to think attitude will play into his success in the NHL at some point as well. I think for Stoll it did.

Oh, I am not mad. I would be swearing if I was mad. No need to tell me to 'move on'.. really, I am not even speaking as a Flames' fan right now.

My opinion is that this was not a 'simple' case of a guy like Stoll not wanting to sign with us, or not being able to meet contract-wise. It is not even an Eric Lindros thumbing his nose at the draft.

This is about a kid (+ whomever is whispering in his ear) about how to just play nice while you are in Sweden, pretend (or perhaps honestly intend to) want to come to Calgary.. but at the very minute changes his tune and says: "NYR or I will re-enter the draft" - meanwhile Sather is all too ready.

I really don't think many kids don't want to play in Calgary, so this isn't a concern of mine. Yes it sucks that Calgary essentially lost a 1st round pick that was more than promising after so many years of failures, but it is what it is - and I am hoping we do something good with the returns. It is also not me being a 'homer'. I would feel the same exact way if it was in Vancouver or Edmonton. It is about circumventing rules and a process that ensures ALL NHL Teams have the best chance of improving, and to ensure the viability of franchises through fair dispersal of players to try and achieve a more balanced level of competition.

This is not the Swedish Elite League where everyone just becomes a free agent and you can continually just pick whatever team you want to play for - the good teams will have the best players. Eventually the NHL will be like the Swedish Elite League, or like European Football. You know who the top teams are, and who will be good. The rest of the teams barely keep it interesting.

side from this, there SEEMS to be a very big issue of tampering. Impossible to prove.. and I don't even think the Flames should bother raising this concern with the league.. but MOST of us seem to think there was at the very least 'some' form of tampering - too many coincidences. Not to hard to see through it, only a confession by Erixon would ever provide evidence, and that will never happen.

This creates a precedence whereby other draftees may start 'choosing' their teams in this manner. This is what is at the heart of my argument. I am not 'mad' per se that "Erixon did this to the Flames". I am concerned that this will lead to a precedent whereby players who had their heart set on playing for a team, start to do this. Can all players do this? No. Only top tier players or players who have shown to be NHL ready seem able to do this - but these are exactly the players that make the draft so important to struggling franchises to begin with.

I do think they need to somehow fix this - both for the protection of the franchise, and also for the protection of the kids. I do agree that some franchises may just be playing hardball and/or other circumstances warrant a kid to be released into the next draft.. but this was 100% the case of Erixon choosing his destination and not being honest in negotiations in order for the Flames to try and salvage 'something' better instead of scrambling.

I have no problem with Feaster on this. I am not a fan of his, and I am rather surprised at how admirably he did with the trade, all things considered. I am also NOT in the agreement that it is Sutter's fault either. For those of you who keep insisting there is any merit to Erixon's concerns about not making the team and being given a fair shake - last year we started more rookies than any other team in the NHL. Keep that in mind.

Sutter has also gone on record saying: "He likes Swedes". There have been a fair number of players drafted and actually playing in the NHL under his watch. Phaneuf was ready out of Junior - Sutter put him on the team right away. There is history there of players making the team. Players who haven't been given a 'fair shake'? Players that didn't MAKE the team. When was the last time some rookie came in, impressed and got put on the team? Brodie. His 3 games were unimpressive and it was easy to see he needed some seasoning/size. It is the quality of our prospects that made them not crack the lineup, not the organization not giving players a chance.

Historically, we were the ones that gave Fleury and St. Louis the chance, no? At a time during the clutching and grabbing era where size mattered the most.

In the salary cap world, there is not a single organization that doesn't give youth a chance. That was all a smokescreen to the fact that Erixon wanted to play for NYR. Period.

Most kids will happily go to the team they got drafted by. Happy wide-eyed and excited as little puppy dogs. However, one can lead to 2. 2 can lead to some. Some can lead to more.. and all of a sudden, you have a big situation on your hands.

[nik-]

I feel worse about this today than I did yesterday. I could at least look at things and say "we have two solid D men coming down the pipe, and that's going to make any bump in the road a little easier to manage"

Now what do we have? There are some seriously dark days for this team coming, and it seriously sucks. F### Tim Erixon, his father and that agency.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

Sounds like Sutter is very much to blame for this. The CBA allows you up to 2 years before the player re-enters the draft. Moving forward, I hope that management is more proactive and gets their top prospects signed in the first year after they are drafted. We heard all the bluster from Sutter about the price for a first rounder in the 2010 draft being Erixon. NYR's 1st round pick at position 10 would have been nice (presuming that they were that high on him and with us in a much better bargaining position than we were yesterday) and if Sutter was able to swing the deal, allowed us to draft a kid like Fowler who appears to be a similar type player as Erixon.

Part of me also thinks that perhaps the scouts made Sutter aware of Erixon's desire to play in NYR, but Sutter brushed their concerns aside and thought he would be able to sell him on Calgary and the organization.

Franchises don't WANT to sign players. It is a waste to do so.

So, if we had signed Erixon immediately to a standard 3 year ELC after his draft, what would happen?

The last 2 years would be eaten up in Sweden. We would then have only 1 year left of his ELC. It doesn't make any organizational sense to sign European players to an ELC if they are not joining your club or AHL farm team. You maintain rights without costing $$, and even more importantly, not wasting the cheap years. It isn't a fault of Sutter's - if he had signed him, and Erixon went to Sweden, then we would be really mad.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Just wondering what specific examples of players that Sutter purposefully held back knowing they were ready as you mention, but still brought in a veteran ahead of them.

The only example would be the Staois acquisition. Most people felt that they should have just brought up Pelech instead.

However, at the very next camp, it was very apparent that Pelech has not progressed, and that he could not push a veteran out of his job. On top of that, a younger guy leap-frogged him in Brodie.

I see every prospect that Calgary has even on a 'borderline' opportunity be given a chance to actually make it. More rookies were started last year than even the blown-up Edmonton Oilers at the beginning of the season. How this myth keeps perpetuating is perplexing.

[Machiavelli]

To be a fly on the wall of the GM's office. I imagine there was a lot of cursing going on at 2:50 pm MST.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flame On

Just wondering what specific examples of players that Sutter purposefully held back knowing they were ready as you mention, but still brought in a veteran ahead of them.

I never said purposely held back which makes it sound like he was punishing guys it's just that guys like Giordano, Prust, Pelech, Montador in his mind never seemed to be as good as the Zyuzin's, Marchments, Hale's, Eriksson's, Premeau's, etc. that were all over the hill or never any good despite making millions on 1 way deals. It was never just about skill or ability with Darryl Sutter as experience seemed to be overemphasized. The Flames rarely called up playerd from the farm as there were always vets or UFA scrubs in the pressbox. We really can't say if Giordano is where he is today if he didn't play hardball. I'm not making up the perception. It's out there and like I said before the low morale at Abbotsford is testament to the prevailing culture of farm players never getting a shot.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

His team mate and fellow d-man David Runblad who was drafted in the 17th spot the same draft Erixon went 23rd and out performed Erixon at the WJC and the WC as well as the same club team (50 pt for Runblad and 24 for Erixon) signed an EL contract June 10,2010.

The signed Runblad was traded from ST. L to Ottawa (where he wanted to be) for Ottawa's first round pick in 2010, 16th overall.

Based on what Runblad went for I'd say that Feaster did a pretty good job here. With this draft class being pretty even outside of a handful of guys at the top I'd rather have 2 seconds and a prospect than a mid round first.

[Jason14h]

Somehow this is Jay Bouwmeesters fault!

[FakenHaken]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The only example would be the Staois acquisition. Most people felt that they should have just brought up Pelech instead.

However, at the very next camp, it was very apparent that Pelech has not progressed, and that he could not push a veteran out of his job. On top of that, a younger guy leap-frogged him in Brodie.

I see every prospect that Calgary has even on a 'borderline' opportunity be given a chance to actually make it. More rookies were started last year than even the blown-up Edmonton Oilers at the beginning of the season. How this myth keeps perpetuating is perplexing.

Actually reading between the lines this is exactly what I find disappointing. I don't know who's fault it is, and I'm not laying any blame. However, it would be pretty cool to have young talent pushing the veterans.

Rather than we give every opportunity. Honestly if kids are not ready to take a job from a veteran why give it to them.

I'm not even sure if we can fix it other than we have to get better at our drafting process.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Franchises don't WANT to sign players. It is a waste to do so.

So, if we had signed Erixon immediately to a standard 3 year ELC after his draft, what would happen?

The last 2 years would be eaten up in Sweden. We would then have only 1 year left of his ELC. It doesn't make any organizational sense to sign European players to an ELC if they are not joining your club or AHL farm team. You maintain rights without costing $$, and even more importantly, not wasting the cheap years. It isn't a fault of Sutter's - if he had signed him, and Erixon went to Sweden, then we would be really mad.

If you sign him and have him under contract, then you have a lot more leverage than you do hours before the deadline. Kid doesn't want to be here, fine, we will trade you but you don't have a gun to your head during trade negotiations.

Maybe Sutter screwed up as well by not bringing him over last season. Does Erixon = Babchuk and/orWhite? While I am against guaranteeing rookies spots on the roster, believe he should have been over here and given a long look instead of being back in Sweden. If he is able to make the team, then you sign him. If not, send him back.

Sutter handles the situation differently, maybe we're not having this discussion.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

If you sign him and have him under contract, then you have a lot more leverage than you do hours before the deadline. Kid doesn't want to be here, fine, we will trade you but you don't have a gun to your head during trade negotiations.

Maybe Sutter screwed up as well by not bringing him over last season. Does Erixon = Babchuk and/orWhite? While I am against guaranteeing rookies spots on the roster, believe he should have been over here and given a long look instead of being back in Sweden. If he is able to make the team, then you sign him. If not, send him back.

Sutter handles the situation differently, maybe we're not having this discussion.

Feaster told the Fan 960 that the Flames wanted Erixon in North America last season but he refused. Whether that was AHL/NHL they didn't specify.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by arloiginla

Well there's one other avenue the Flames could have explored here that doesn't seem to have been discussed much.

They could have let Erixon re-enter and pick him 13th overall.

At first it seems dumb as you are basically throwing away a 1st rounder since you used two firsts on the same player.

But it would also

a) show Erixon's camp that this kind of monkey business doesn't fly
b) show Slats that the tampering business doesn't fly

Or at the very least you tell Sather that you have no problems re-drafting at 13 and force the price up in the trade. Let it be clear to Erixon's camp as well...see if they are willing to throw away another 2 years of his career just to eventually play somewhere else.

Would be a ballsy thing to do but I guess we'll never know how it might have turned out.

I don't think he would fall to 13th if he went back into the draft.

Well at least he didn't want to be a Canuck. Imagine if that was the case??!

and i blame Bouwmeester too.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I never said purposely held back which makes it sound like he was punishing guys it's just that guys like Giordano, Prust, Pelech, Montador in his mind never seemed to be as good as the Zyuzin's, Marchments, Hale's, Eriksson's, Premeau's, etc. that were all over the hill or never any good despite making millions on 1 way deals. It was never just about skill or ability with Darryl Sutter as experience seemed to be overemphasized. The Flames rarely called up playerd from the farm as there were always vets or UFA scrubs in the pressbox. We really can't say if Giordano is where he is today if he didn't play hardball. I'm not making up the perception. It's out there and like I said before the low morale at Abbotsford is testament to the prevailing culture of farm players never getting a shot.

You can't really lump Montador in with that group. In Sutter's first full year as GM, Montador was on the roster for the entire season. Sure, he only played 26 games, but he was the 7th defenceman, and at the time, that was where he belonged. In Sutter's 2nd year as GM, he was traded for Huselius. No matter how much you like Montador, Huselius is the better player.

[FlamesAddiction]

It's only if you are looking at the surface that it seems like we don't give young players a chance. Yes, it's true that we load up on veterans and send the prospects back, but the real problem is a lack of decent prospects that can make a case for themselves. If you can't beat out Staios for a spot, then you don't deserve a spot. It seems like people think the Flames should have a quota system or some type of affirmative action for players under 23, but no team operates that way.

The bottom line is - draft better or trade for better prospects so we can improve that image. The Erixon thing is happening at a bad moment because he would have helped us improve that image, but alas...

No doubt this team need an image makeover, but that can't happen until we get better prospects (who don't have a boner for the Rangers).