WWDC 2010 Thread - Let's talk some APPLE!!!

[FlamesKickAss]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I'm starting to warm up to the white a little bit more. I'm just not crazy about the speaker holes.

Originally Posted by Flames0910

ugh. just noticed that.

thanks a lot

Yeah thanks for that. I wonder why the black one doesnt have that.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by FlamesKickAss

Yeah thanks for that. I wonder why the black one doesnt have that.

It does, its just not as noticeable.

[kermitology]

All I've heard from my (now former) team lead is that the new XCode is really impressive.

I say former because I'm no longer on the iPhone development team.

[photon]

Lol another interesting article from Ars

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/20...d-the-ipad.ars

I don't think it's hypocrisy since it's doing exactly what Apple wants; driving people to unblockable and unavoidable ads in apps and driving developers to the app store where the revenue will be better since the ads are unavoidable where Apple has complete (some might say whimsical) control.

Evil!

[kyuusei]

Originally Posted by algernon

Step 1: Phone Rogers.
Step 2: In a shrill, agitated voice yell "RETENTIONS!" "RETENTIONS!" over and over until you get someone on the phone who can actually do something.
Step 3: Quote HotHotHeat's plan from here, as though you are pissed off that your 'buddy' gets the good plan, and whyTF aren't you?
step 4: Mention that you'll take advantage of your Hardware Upgrade at this time. (They wouldn't want to lose your business, after all that work, would they?)

The squeaky wheel approach has worked for me well in the past. You just need to get through to retentions to have anything done.

Ha. In this thread, I've read this suggestion, and the 'be real super nice' suggestion. I think they'd be quicker to appease someone who's a bit POed (as long as I'm not being rude anyway) at being told 3-4 different things by Rogers since January than someone who already seems happy anyways, right?

Oh, I do plan on calling them... again. And getting someone who can actually do something than repeat their 2 year upgrade policy. I've already called them a couple times and been to the stores, which can't do anything anyway. They did call me at some point but I regrettably missed it. Ugh.

One of my friends suggested I call Rogers every day (they log your calls) until they give me what I want so I'd stop calling. Luckily the iPhone 4 is a month away.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by kyuusei

Ha. In this thread, I've read this suggestion, and the 'be real super nice' suggestion. I think they'd be quicker to appease someone who's a bit POed (as long as I'm not being rude anyway) at being told 3-4 different things by Rogers since January than someone who already seems happy anyways, right?

Oh, I do plan on calling them... again. And getting someone who can actually do something than repeat their 2 year upgrade policy. I've already called them a couple times and been to the stores, which can't do anything anyway. They did call me at some point but I regrettably missed it. Ugh.

One of my friends suggested I call Rogers every day (they log your calls) until they give me what I want so I'd stop calling. Luckily the iPhone 4 is a month away.

That is a pretty thin line. Two different CSR's could take a pissed off mood in two very different ways. Remember, they are going to be dealing with people in poor moods all day long ... that's going to wear on them. I'm of course just going on how I deal with people. If somebody deals with me in a surly mood, I go the extra mile to make sure their service is poor.

[FanIn80]

I was in software tech support for three years. I promise there are more people who will do whatever they can to NOT help someone who's being a dick to them, than there are those who will cater to that behavior.

Be polite but firm, and know what you're talking about.

Edit: Unless you get someone from India. Then just hang up and switch companies. That's not a racial thing, it's a "this company obviously doesn't place any value in customer support, if they farm their initial point of contact out to some sweat shop in the middle of India" thing.

[Burninator]

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Edit: Unless you get someone from India. Then just hang up and switch companies. That's not a racial thing, it's a "this company obviously doesn't place any value in customer support, if they farm their initial point of contact out to some sweat shop in the middle of India" thing.

You know, Jim Rome was right when he says, when someone starts a sentence with “That’s not a racial thing”, the next thing out of their mouths is going to be racist.

There is nothing wrong with good technical support out of India and I’ve had the pleasure of working with many Indian tech support staff who have been knowledgeable, courteous, and effective. To allude to them as sweat shop workers and denigrate their skill set is unfair and unwarranted.


There is nothing worse than poor technical support, and it abounds everywhere. I’ve dealt with crummy tech support in my own city, nevermind Calcutta.

Which of these industry leading companies do you suggest I “hang up on” because they employ people in other countries?

How about:
EMC
Microsoft
Intuit
HP
Dell

All companies I have been in contact with in the last week, and in each case, their India-based tech support was excellent.

Your jingoism and latent racism has no place here.

[algernon]

Originally Posted by Russic

That is a pretty thin line. Two different CSR's could take a pissed off mood in two very different ways. Remember, they are going to be dealing with people in poor moods all day long ... that's going to wear on them. I'm of course just going on how I deal with people. If somebody deals with me in a surly mood, I go the extra mile to make sure their service is poor.

Absolutely. I make sure they know I'm not angry with them.
I let them know it is the coverage/price/plan that I'm unhappy with. By the end of the call we're friends.
I'm sure different approaches work, but, if you're an established customer, and you can show them where it's cheaper/better... why wouldn't they try a little harder?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

You know, Jim Rome was right when he says, when someone starts a sentence with “That’s not a racial thing”, the next thing out of their mouths is going to be racist.

Your jingoism and latent racism has no place here.

I didn't say, "I'm not being a racist..." and then followed it up with a racist comment. I posted about farming an aspect of a company that I feel is one of the most important, out to a foreign country. I said "it's not a racial thing..." which, quite literally, means that I wasn't speaking about anything to do with race. I was speaking specifically about the act of farming the support ANYWHERE overseas to save money. Yes, I mentioned India, because it's the most obvious example. I wasn't going to mention each of the dozens of countries that are overseas.

It's very simple. Farming your tech support out to an overseas country, and then connecting to them over a voip system sends the message to people that customer support is not a priority with your company. There are plenty of places to cut costs within a company, without shipping your initial point of contact with your customers out to a foreign country. When I call a new company for tech support and get someone located overseas (I don't care if it's India, Russia, France or Southeastern Zimbabwe), I immediately get the perception that I'm never going to be able to speak to the company that I actually paid my money to. That, for me, is a very disheartening thing.

It isn't a racial thing, it's a technical and a presentation thing. It has nothing to do with the ability of the people living in other countries to do their jobs. I, too, have had excellent service from people in India.

Anyway, I'm not getting into any further argument over this. My views on what constitutes good customer service are my own, but do yourself a favour and save the "racist" diatribe for someone who deserves it.

[Burninator]

/\ Not that I agree or disagree with what you are saying. But Apple (among others) farms out its assembly to another country for the same cost reasons other companies farming out customer service, what's the difference?

[kermitology]

iPhone 4 "Retina Display" Challenged:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2364871,00.asp

I think this is grasping at straws. I assumed that the "retina display" was just a marketing name..

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I didn't say, "I'm not being a racist..." and then followed it up with a racist comment. I posted about farming an aspect of a company that I feel is one of the most important, out to a foreign country. I said "it's not a racial thing..." which, quite literally, means that I wasn't speaking about anything to do with race. I was speaking specifically about the act of farming the support ANYWHERE overseas to save money. Yes, I mentioned India, because it's the most obvious example. I wasn't going to mention each of the dozens of countries that are overseas.

It's very simple. Farming your tech support out to an overseas country, and then connecting to them over a voip system sends the message to people that customer support is not a priority with your company. There are plenty of places to cut costs within a company, without shipping your initial point of contact with your customers out to a foreign country. When I call a new company for tech support and get someone located overseas (I don't care if it's India, Russia, France or Southeastern Zimbabwe), I immediately get the perception that I'm never going to be able to speak to the company that I actually paid my money to. That, for me, is a very disheartening thing.

It isn't a racial thing, it's a technical and a presentation thing. It has nothing to do with the ability of the people living in other countries to do their jobs. I, too, have had excellent service from people in India.

Anyway, I'm not getting into any further argument over this. My views on what constitutes good customer service are my own, but do yourself a favour and save the "racist" diatribe for someone who deserves it.

No you were being racist...you quite deliberately singled out Indians as a source of sub-par service on the part of multinational companies. You said take your business elsewhere if a company employs Indians. How much more discriminatory on the basis of race or nationality can you get?

Having your help centre in another part of the world says you are a multinational company with worldwide presence. It’s extraordinarily narrow thinking in this day and age to assume that because it isn’t Jimmy down the street answering your tech support calls that a company is any less interested in servicing you. The fact that some companies like Dell offer an enhanced service level (for a fee) that ensures you talk to a North American is just pandering to people that are intolerant of the reality of a global workforce. Mostly its to pander to racists who are intolerant of people having a foreign accent, in countries where jingoism runs rampant.


Edit: I think its even funnier that you claim to not be making a racist statement, when you in fact went back and EDITED your post to specifically take that jab at Indian tech support, in a thread about a company that doesn’t even employee Indian help desks, no less.

[MickMcGeough]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

No you were being racist...you quite deliberately singled out Indians as a source of sub-par service on the part of multinational companies. You said take your business elsewhere if a company employs Indians. How much more discriminatory on the basis of race or nationality can you get?

Can you drop the race thing and not get this thread locked?

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

No you were being racist...you quite deliberately singled out Indians as a source of sub-par service on the part of multinational companies. You said take your business elsewhere if a company employs Indians. How much more discriminatory on the basis of race or nationality can you get?

Having your help centre in another part of the world says you are a multinational company with worldwide presence. It’s extraordinarily narrow thinking in this day and age to assume that because it isn’t Jimmy down the street answering your tech support calls that a company is any less interested in servicing you. The fact that some companies like Dell offer an enhanced service level (for a fee) that ensures you talk to a North American is just pandering to people that are intolerant of the reality of a global workforce. Mostly its to pander to racists who are intolerant of people having a foreign accent, in countries where jingoism runs rampant.


Edit: I think its even funnier that you claim to not be making a racist statement, when you in fact went back and EDITED your post to specifically take that jab at Indian tech support, in a thread about a company that doesn’t even employee Indian help desks, no less.

Are you on friggin crack or something? I know exactly what I said, and you're wrong.

There's no simpler way to put it than that. Move on.


Edit: Actually, I'm not done.

This is exactly what I said:

Unless you get someone from India. Then just hang up and switch companies. That's not a racial thing, it's a "this company obviously doesn't place any value in customer support, if they farm their initial point of contact out to some sweat shop in the middle of India" thing.

What other way than, "That's not a racial thing..." can I possibly say that it's not a racial thing? What did you want me to do, list every single country overseas so as to not appear discriminatory towards anyone? Get real. India is the most obvious example of farming out tech support, and you know damn well that's true. I was speaking specifically about the act of farming out tech support.

You're insinuation that I said to "take your business elsewhere if a company employs Indians" is asinine at best. In my four years of posting here, have I ever made any racist remarks about anyone? The answer is no.

[FanIn80]

You know... I used to think you were actually pretty cool, but now I'm starting to wonder about you. Just last week, I made the comment about Woz going a little nuts with his money, and you responded with a demand that I provide clinical proof that he was indeed insane... and now this? What's next? I say something about the TV in my kitchen not working, and you go on a tear about how I enslave transvestites to do my dishes?

Geeze, man. Get a grip.

[GrrlGoalie33]

Any word on anything else coming out of the WWDC?

[FanIn80]

Not much, really. I'm dying to get some solid info on Xcode, but the NDA is preventing that.

Microsoft did their bit on Mac Office 2011, revealing to everyone that they will not be creating a 64bit version. Their reason is that Apple requires the interface to be built entirely using Cocoa before compiling to 64bit.

In fact, we send dozens of people to WWDC every year to make sure MacBU products take full advantage of core Apple technologies, such as Cocoa. If you haven't heard - Outlook for Mac and the new user interface elements in Office 2011 such as the ribbon are built on Cocoa. We like using Cocoa because it makes it easier to do what the MacBU specializes in: marrying Microsoft software and services to the look and feel Mac users want.

In Office 2011, we’ve made investments in better compatibility between Office for Mac and Windows Office, which is the largest request we receive from customers. We think we have some outstanding improvements to show you in this area, and we'll continue to share details in coming weeks. Our work to increase compatibility means we haven’t completed the transition of moving the entire user interface over to Cocoa yet. And because Apple's frameworks require us to complete the move to Cocoa before we can build a 64-bit version, Office 2011 will be 32-bit only. What does this mean to you? While Cocoa makes our job building Office easier, Office 2011 will look and feel great regardless of what technology is powering which bit of user interface.

Truth be told, most people won't be affected. Lots are pissed at the news, but it's really a matter of "what do you mean I can't have 64bit" more than anything else.

Not much else, really.

Oh, they announced the winners of the iOS Design Awards:

iPad
- Financial Times iPad Edition
- Flight Control HD
- Pinball HD
- Star Walk for iPad
- TabToolkit

iPhone
- 20 Minute Meals - Jamie Oliver
- Articles
- Brushes
- Doodle Jump
- Real Racing

[kyuusei]

Originally Posted by algernon

Absolutely. I make sure they know I'm not angry with them.
I let them know it is the coverage/price/plan that I'm unhappy with. By the end of the call we're friends.
I'm sure different approaches work, but, if you're an established customer, and you can show them where it's cheaper/better... why wouldn't they try a little harder?

Oh I do too. It isn't like I start off surly, just polite with whatever question I was calling with. If I don't like the response (or lack thereof) then I'll tell them so, but I already stated I don't get rude about it. The last time was when they'd told me I can't upgrade til 2011. It wasn't until then that I told them that I'd been given 3 different dates. I know the person on the other end can't necessarily tell me why, but I wanted to let them know.

Yes, if I get surly customers, I might not give them the best service either. But it is possible to be unhappy as a customer and still be polite yet firm about it.

I'm thinking if Rogers will let 3GS customers, who will hardly be a year into their contracts, upgrade to the iPhone 4 at the 'normal' upgrade price (I don't know yet if it's true for Rogers, but it's what AT&T is doing), then why not other customers whose contracts are older and their bills are STILL averaging 100/month (aka me). At least that's the argument I'm going to go with. It's like the coverage/price/plan argument, just with hardware instead. At least.. I hope it'll fly. =P